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Replies: 20 / Views: 3,031 |
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Valued Member
United States
392 Posts |
It seems like there are several signs that the US Mint might be changing their focus regarding coinage. First, due to COVID, production has been a challenge and it seems as though there have been some shortages. Next, the growth in touchless, credit cards, electronic payment - paypal/venmo/zelle and now crypto might be affecting the future of circulated coinage. This year we seem to be getting more coin releases but many seem to have low mintages (that sell out in minutes). This feels like the mint is transitioning focus to the collector coin market. Is it? I'm interested in your opinion.
*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5239 Posts |
I hope for your sake that the US mint does not become like the Royal Canadian Mint, with hundreds of issues per year of collector "coins" many of which have no obvious connection to Canada. Given that currently in the US, the mint needs legislative authority for each issue, I think that there are limits to how far it can go.
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
Well believe it or not I have only seen 3 2021 P or D Lincoln Cents so far this year . I don't CRH , but what I receive from change from everyday purchasing with cash. 
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
No surprise to me that the U.S. Mint is gradually moving their business to collector coins. The writing is on the wall - they have to.
All Mints around the World have realized that the economy of all counties would eventually be cashless - first perceived using cards, and then entirely digital, without cards. Crypto currency could well follow, and that is what our grandkids will be using.
In order to stay in business and retain some sort of relevance, Mints have realized that there is still a non circulating coin collector demand to be met, and they are the obvious sort of organization to meet that demand.
I am more interested in the historical aspects of numismatics, and so modern Mint product NCLT does't interest me all that much, but in regard to modern collecting trends, I know that the type of collector that I happen to be, is in very much in the minority, despite the fact that coinage history spans 25 centuries.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7273 Posts |
Do you all realize that the mint produces billions of coins for circulation? 2021 (as of 8/2021) - 8.86 billion 2020 - 14.74 billion 2019 -11.94 billion 2018- 13 billion Do you actually think that our few collector series are more than a side hustle for the mint? The mints job is to produce coins for circulation, all this talk of a cash less world doesn't seem to tie up with producing billions of coins. Even if the mint produced several million coins for collectors the number is insignificant compared to what they produce for circulation. We (coin collectors) get all excited about new mint releases and now the flippers know we'll pay above the selling price hence why these issues are selling so quick. But to the average person they don't even look at their change. Just a few days ago at the bagel shop a person got a 2005 westward nickel with the bison, he saw it and said "wow it's a Buffalo nickel, they haven't made these for decades, he didn't even look at the date", I just ignored him .
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
I will probably buy very few if any from the mint but will look on the bright side of it all. Coin collecting might be on the rise. Maybe there are more collectors out there? There must be a market or the mint wouldn't be making the product.
The down side could be, that the inflated original cost may be higher than the real value down the road and it will turn off the collectors who made poor investments. You can't deny the mint the opportunity to make money. They are making hay while the sun shines.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1667 Posts |
Never gonna happen. Cash is always going to be needed for something, and it's never going to be done away with.
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
Quote:Just a few days ago at the bagel shop a person got a 2005 westward nickel with the bison, he saw it and said "wow it's a Buffalo nickel, they haven't made these for decades, he didn't even look at the date", I just ignored him . I'm surprised you didn't you didn't throw your Bagel at him . 
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Valued Member
United States
221 Posts |
With hfjacinto,  . Picture the average person who would be researching numismatics, purchasing coins through online channels, and posting on web forums. Perhaps we as a group (Full disclosure, I use cash and credit cards quite a bit, platforms like PayPal almost never, though.) are predisposed to be more comfortable with cashless transactions, as are the people with whom they interact. The effect of such an environment can be an echo chamber where perceptions are confirmed by interactions with people who shop and sell things the same way. I noticed this disconnect in opinion over the use of cash early on in the COVID mess. I started seeing opinion pieces written by tech savvy folks seeming to celebrate the fact that the pandemic would finally end use of cash and all the distasteful business they associated with it. At the same time, businesses I frequented were scrounging for coins to make change in cash transactions, which were critical to their operations. I also bought things from people who preferred to see cold, hard cash, and they certainly were not thieves, drug dealers, or human traffickers. My experiences and those of the cashless proponents probably don't match well. Who's right then? Can we entirely trust our own experiences, especially if those experiences aren't more diverse? That's why for me the facts and figures, like what hfjacinto posted, trump most other arguments.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
850 Posts |
I am glad they have a strict limit of 2 commemorative coins they can make per year. Now this year is interesting as they were able to get the Morgan and Peace dollars thru but it sounds like its a continuation. So I guess there are some loopholes to go around this rule
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1613 Posts |
Both federal notes and coin hold a perceived value. Meaning, they are worth nothing more than the word of several suits sitting around an oak table say it is. Known as full "faith". As for coin, both the cent and nickel far exceed a real value in their metal content based on a marketable. Even in today's digital world commercial transactions would need to be conducted should a failure in electrical power or servers being off-line. Factor in the growing ransomeware and other computer hacks and it becomes clear that a cashless society is not happening.
ANA member - PAN Member - BCCS Member There are no problems only solutions - the late, great John Lennon
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
 United States
12255 Posts |
It's not so much about the quantity of the coins struck as it is about the seigniorage and net income derived from the coins produced.
For 2020, the Mint had a net income of $549.9 million from circulating coinage, $46.2 from bullion and just $12.4 million from numismatic/collector products (90.4% / 7.6% / 2.0%, respectively).
In 2019, the overall numbers were down, but the percentage split was definitely still skewed: circulation coinage, $318.3 million, bullion $5.6 million and numismatic/collector products $1.7 million (97.8% / 1.7% / 0.5%, respectively).
In 2018, the numbers were: circulation coinage, $321.1 million, bullion $7.0 million and numismatic/collector products ($15.3) million - a loss - (97.9% / 2.1% / (4.7%), respectively).
So, while numismatic/collector sales have become a bigger component of the Mint's overall revenue pie, they do not yet make up a significant piece. The Mint is most definitely not shifting to a model driven by collector coins any time soon.
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
 United States
12255 Posts |
Quote: ...the Royal Canadian Mint, with hundreds of issues per year of collector "coins"... The Canadian Mint has significantly reduced the number of collector coins it issues currently. While it's still 100+ for the year, it is no longer the 300+ it was a few years back.
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
Quote: Do you all realize that the mint produces billions of coins for circulation?
2021 (as of 8/2021) - 8.86 billion 2020 - 14.74 billion 2019 -11.94 billion 2018- 13 billion This is reality. There's been a coin shortage, but it's not caused by decreased production. That means that it's caused by increased demand. Quote: I will probably buy very few if any from the mint but will look on the bright side of it all. Coin collecting might be on the rise. Maybe there are more collectors out there? There must be a market or the mint wouldn't be making the product.
The down side could be, that the inflated original cost may be higher than the real value down the road and it will turn off the collectors who made poor investments. There's no evidence that the increase in demand for the mint's numismatic products is caused by a sudden increase in the popularity of coin collecting. Most likely it's caused by the federal government's "stimulus" handouts (which is in reality just shifting money around from people to people while devaluing the money supply) and the federal reserve's attempt at artificial stimulus by holding interest rates artificially low. The result of both these policies is inflation. During inflationary times (over supply of money), people put money in to speculative products such as coins. When/if the inflation goes away, they will too.
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Valued Member
United States
442 Posts |
The way I look at it is, the more money the mint makes from selling commems, the less of my tax dollars they have to use to make the rest of the coins. I don't buy modern commems from the mint. Even though I collect them. I wait a couple years. The only mint purchase I have made was a 5 oz silver ATB "quarter" from Salt River Bay, USVI. One, because we have kayaked that bay on vacation. And two, because the mint was about to raise prices based on silver going up.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
Quote: The way I look at it is, the more money the mint makes from selling commems, the less of my tax dollars they have to use to make the rest of the coins. You'll be happy to know that the mint does not use your tax dollars to make coins. The mint actually makes money off of the seigniorage. Seigniorage is the difference between the value of money and the cost to produce and distribute it. For example, if a bank pays the mint $10,000 for $10,000 face value worth of coins that cost the mint $4,000 to manufacture, then the mint makes $6,000. The mint's profit is put in the federal treasury. The minting of coins is inflationary, but it's inflationary significance is insignificant compared to other sources of inflation such as artificially low federal reserve interest rates or government debt spending. Every bit of money that the mint makes on commemorative coins over their cost to produce is profit for the federal government.
Edited by Bret 08/15/2021 1:51 pm
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Replies: 20 / Views: 3,031 |