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1910 Lincoln Wheat Cent, For Grading

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KYCopperCoins's Avatar
United States
1361 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2021  10:50 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add KYCopperCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Ok...another cherrypick matching the die markers for the matte proof... and no, I'm not gonna leave any in the wild before you ask Fortcollins!


1910-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent,-For-Grading
1910-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent,-For-Grading
1910-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent,-For-Grading

1910-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent,-For-Grading
1910-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent,-For-Grading
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panzaldi's Avatar
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18645 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2021  11:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS63RB. proof...not sure as I'm not enough familiar with the matte proofs from that time but I'm not seeing enough markers
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CoinHunter4's Avatar
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1086 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2021  11:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter4 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-63BN
Edited by CoinHunter4
10/07/2021 11:17 am
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 10/07/2021  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll say MS-63RB, possibly BN.
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BadThad's Avatar
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19935 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2021  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
63, some deep, active corrosion on it.
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KYCopperCoins's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 10/07/2021  6:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KYCopperCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, you need to get me a bottle of verdicare asap BadThad....
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 10/07/2021  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've said this before, but the 1910 Lincoln Proof is an enigma.
The mintage was either 2,405 or 4,113. People strongly cling to one of the numbers, but nobody really knows.
There was only one die pair used for the mintage.
TPGs claim that very few exist. @KYCopperCoins has shown that far more are in the wild than would be expected. My experience in shows (back when they existed) echoes that.
There are well known die markers for this proof, yet virtually none of the proofs exhibit all of the die markers, and some exhibit additional die markers that haven't been recognized.
Nobody knows whether the proof dies were used for business strike coins.

This coin shows several of the known markers. It also shows a prominent die scratch that isn't one of the known markers (the vertical scratch between the "L" and "I" of LIBERTY).

Multiple choice time:
(A) This coin is a business strike, but inexplicably has many of the same markers as the known proof.
(B) This coin is a proof from the original proof run, which may or may not have been 2,405 coins, but inexplicably has a prominent die marker not identified for that proof.
(C) This coin is struck from the proof dies either as a second run of proofs, bringing the total mintage to 4,113, or as a specimen coin run after the official proof mintage was completed. If so, the dies were polished before this run, explaining the additional marker and why some of the lesser markers aren't visible.

My hunch is (C), but there is zero evidence in the mint records of a second proof run. Given the shenanigans at the mint during this era (1913 nickels or 1907 proof high relief double eagles or 1910 VDB cents, anyone?), anything is possible.

As for the technical grade, I think it makes a Something-64, but the surface corrosion is serious. Depending on whether it can be conserved, it would either be a Something-64 or Something Details. I'm leaning pretty strongly toward this being a proof.


Quote:
and no, I'm not gonna leave any in the wild before you ask Fortcollins!

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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 10/07/2021  7:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kinda whacked up, milk spotted and tinged with ED. Not a fan.
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KYCopperCoins's Avatar
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 Posted 10/07/2021  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KYCopperCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, but for 50 bucks I'll buy matte proofs all day long.
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Petespockets55's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 10/08/2021  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not real familiar with early Lincoln proof cents so please forgive this question if the answer seems obvious to others.

There appears to be a very slight Rim Fin above IGWT and around the right wheat suggesting a slight tilt to the dies or a slight misalignment of the dies.
Is this fairly common for proof coins? All the ones I've been fortunate to see seem to have well centered and consistent, uniform rims.

ps. There also seems to be some "roundness" to the rim gutter on the obverse at K4 to K9 and reverse at K3 to K4. Is this normal on some older dies used for proof coins or is this an indication of proof dies being used for circulation struck coins.

Thanks for taking the time to educate and help a fellow collector that loves Lincoln copper.
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Edited by Petespockets55
10/08/2021 08:36 am
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 10/08/2021  5:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Petespockets55, Excellent points and questions.

The short answer is no, it isn't common on the early Lincoln proofs except for 1910, where apparently anything is possible.

The really frustrating thing about 1910 proofs is that there are far too many of them in existence to match the proof mintage figures, but far too few of them in existence to suggest a production run of business strikes with the former proof dies. There is nothing in the mint records to help resolve the questions.

Soooo, I'm at

EDIT: The one for-sure thing is that @KYCopperCoins will eventually have all of them.
Edited by fortcollins
10/08/2021 5:04 pm
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KYCopperCoins's Avatar
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 Posted 10/08/2021  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KYCopperCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's my favorite one in my collection speaking of that, doubt I've shared it lol.
1910-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent,-For-Grading
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 10/08/2021  6:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well that's just nuts!
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Petespockets55's Avatar
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 Posted 10/09/2021  08:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
.... but far too few of them in existence to suggest a production run of business strikes with the former proof dies...


This is a stretch but what about the possibility of using the proof dies to finish out the year for the quota? I could see the mint getting close and a worker seeing a mostly "fresh" die just sitting there.

I know this is all speculation without documentation, but if they modified a VDB reverse to use in 1910 they certainly could have put a "perfectly" good die to use to finish the production instead of tossing it. I can hear the old-timer saying "Waste not, want not!" as he inserted the die.

Again, I'm not familiar with the proof Lincolns but is there any indication on the 1910 coins with the additional die markers and die scratches why they may have needed to be polished (Clashes, struckthrough, etc.) and continue with proof production. A production run of +-4000 coins doesn't seem like there would be much need for maintenance.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your in-depth knowledge. I like stretching my thought process. The old gray matter ain't what it used to be!!
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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BuffaloIronTail's Avatar
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 Posted 12/17/2021  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuffaloIronTail to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look at the edge. That should tell the whole story. If you have a razor edge, it's a proof.

If you have a chamfered edge, it's circulated.

Pete
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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94367 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2021  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, you are over-simplifying this, especially for the 1910 issues.
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