| Author |
 Replies: 12 / Views: 806 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts |
OK, so this Barber dime is for sale on ebay, and graded by NGC as MS67+* (plus AND star). I'm asking honestly in hopes of understanding how NGC graded it this way when what I THINK I see here are numerous scratches in the fields from a vigorous cleaning. I'm guessing that the photograph has been lightened quite a lot on the obverse (the toning must be pretty dark) because the devices, especially the wreath, are flattened to the point that you can't distinguish the edges. They can't be worn down that much and still get that grade, right? And yes, I know some here feel that NGC's grading is quite a bit more permissive than PCGS, but I can't believe they'd give a coin that deserves maybe an AU grading an MS67+*. This coin must be a lot better than what I think I'm seeing in the photos. So educate me. What am I missing/misinterpreting? And please try not to make me feel like an idiot.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/353883003852*** Edited by Staff to Add Year / Mintmark / Denomination to Title. Titles are Important! *** |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
735 Posts |
Maybe just die polishing lines? not entirely sure. I'll wait for some more knowledgeable members to chime in.  I've been collecting for a couple years... Favorite Coin's are Standing Liberty quarters, Working on my type set | Coffee, Corvettes, Coins & the CCF what could be better? |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
36688 Posts |
Not sure what the graders were looking at but they had the coin in hand. I'm not seeing anything above MS-64 and those sure don't look like die polish lines.   |
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
790 Posts |
If they're not die polish lines, wouldn't they probably be damage of some sort? I'd think that would rule out any MS grade, wouldn't it? Don't get me wrong, if it were my lying eyes vs. NGC I'd back NGC every time. I just don't get what it is I'm seeing here.
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
461 Posts |
You are seeing an overgraded coin with eye-catching toning. I think Indian Gold Eagle is probably right. I looked at it and thought the highest grade I could give would be MS66.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
18649 Posts |
someone got carried away with polishing the dies on this one. due to the reflective surfaces and toning they are going to stand out more so. personally I'm not a fan of super toned coins like this as they dont tend to age well and go to black. the reverse is strongly struck and deserves a 67 grade but the obverse does not imo. I can see the overall coin as high as MS66 but its not something I would go out of my way to purch ASE |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts |
No worries there, Panzaldi, at least on my part. $4.5k on a coin is too rich for my blood. LOL.
I thought die polish lines usually ran parallel but since it was done by hand I guess it wouldn't have to be that way.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts |
What about the obverse on this, guys? I'm talking about the fact that the edges of the leaves on the wreath aren't very distinct (or at all distinct in places). Is that maybe some issues with the photograph (I've noticed when they fiddle with lighting or try to make it brighter, it can flatten or blur elements of a coin), or a weak strike? It's obviously not wear since you guys are still giving it an MS grade.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2003 Posts |
Are you sure that the so called polish lines are on the coin and not the holder?
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10034 Posts |
Remember grading is not a verifiable science. TPGs use nothing verifiable to grade a coin. They also never give answers as to why they graded a coin as they did b/c they know there is no legitimate and verifiable answer. These companies outright state what they do is an art and not a science. So when people ask "why?" in situations like this, the legitimate answer is that the companies have no answer - try to get one from them - they will not do it. They are in no way accountable for the grades they assign. Too many people are too willing to assume what they see with their own eyes must be wrong when they encounter situations where there may be a slabbing error. It may very well be this coin was a cleaned coin and those are cleaning lines. But few people want to even think it possible the TPG made a mistake despite things like the following not being hard to find: http://goccf.com/t/346174#2967242Doing some legitimate homework concerning these companies will show the best way to approach slabs is to understand the same coin can be cracked out and regraded as something different even by the same company. So how can we expect to be able to accurately explain an anomaly we find? Take the link in my signature. It uses (linked) PCGS website quotes/data/pics and shows their rookie level incompetence for the No FG Kennedy halves. But if a person cannot be objective about the subject (understandable when someone has a lot of $ invested in these companies' products) you will not like the facts you see. Collectors have been taken for a ride to the tune of thousands of dollars for non-error halves that PCGS was paid to label as "No FG." Why is the paper about this specific variety coin? B/c I just happened to study a specialty area of mine - Kennedy halves. I do not doubt other things like this problem are hard to find as well if someone will take the time for an honest research. Education is the key to collector success. Buy the coin and not the slab. When the facts about these companies are known, then collectors can avoid (as shown in the paper) losing a lot of money when enjoying collecting slabs. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
They certainly look like die polishing lines to me. Not a single one that I can see crosses any of the devices. That said, they are very random in the way it was done, which very much hurts the eye appeal IMO. Not a coin I would be interested in, regardless of the grade. If they are die polishing lines, then it is as minted and wouldn't greatly affect a technical grade. Though again, IMO, should have been held back a bit in the eye appeal side of things, and keeping from an higher than MS66. TPG's are not perfect, and sometimes far from it, but given the extent of the scratches in question, I highly doubt they would let this one get by if those were not die polishing lines. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
I am concluding those erratic lines are scratches on the holder. I was just looking at another coin by the same seller that has the exact same issue with scratches on the holder.
Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
I've looked at tons of Barber dime images and my impression is that aggressive die polishing is common for New Orleans during this era and often deep in the dies. Just as an example, this is the second one that pops up on Heritage https://coins.ha.com/itm/barber-dim...bnail-071515 Look at the obverse. There is another MS67+* on HA sold for $4560 back in 2019, and one for $4935 in 2015, but others are $2000-3000 range so the seller is shooting for the moon a bit here. Other than the die polish it seems consistent with the other 67+* grades they've given. |
| |
Replies: 12 / Views: 806 |
|
Posted 01/30/2022 1:03 pm
