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 Replies: 37 / Views: 7,427 |
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
Hello Everyone, I went into a rabbit hole tonight reading about Morgans and Peace dollars . . . inevitably, I ended up on some websites/blogs from circa 2010 offering to buy coins at 90% back on melt for refining. The offers, of course, included Morgan and Peace dollars. My question(s), are silver dollars still being melted? in 2022, I mean. If so, in what quantity? Given the mintages, melts, etc. over the 100+ years, I know it is impossible to get a completely accurate number of dollars still in hands - unmelted - but any ideas on current melt volumes? I did not collect as a kid, but I was around antiques, coin shops, etc, and I remember Morgans selling for $1-3 melt; they seem to regularly sell for 100-150% over melt now. Anyone care to speculate if this will continue? Thanks again! R.  |
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Moderator
 United States
54280 Posts |
Quoting a price to buy silver coins as a factor of melt value, does not mean that buyer intends to actually melt them.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
I have no evidence, so this in only conjecture. I would say few of them ever actually get melted. If the date and mint mark are visible, collectors will still want them for sets. Silver stackers and people prepping for Armageddon it seems would want easily exchanged units, and the coins are already in convenient one ounce quantities. The world still produces 24000 metric tons of silver annually, so it seems like that supply would meet the demand for bulk silver to be used in other applications. But I really don't know and it's an interesting question. Where do the world's mints get the silver to produce all their "products" every year? Is it from melted coins?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2216 Posts |
There are websites that show melt value of coins so collectors know, but that does not mean these coins are being melted, it's just a baseline to calculate metal worth. https://www.NGCcoin.com/price-guide...-values.aspxThe US government melted millions of Morgan dollars under the Pittman Act of 1918 and many likely have been melted through the years. But I guess since the 1960s-1970s when collecting them became more popular fewer have been melted. Sales prove thay have higher collector value, higher stacking value than melt value, so only the very worst condition might be melted today. I saw in another coin forum a reference to a 1993 book Silver Dollar Encyclopidia by Q D Bowers who estimated about 100 to 200 million silver dollars remain. There's no way to know what a Morgan or Peace dollar will be worth in the future. In general many prices are rising, gas, food, etc, including silver/gold coins. Edited by livingwater
03/13/2022 10:21 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5239 Posts |
I would say that a few get melted-but only heavily worn or badly damaged ones.
A lot of sterling cutlery and scrap jewelry IS melted.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1613 Posts |
I would suspect the answer to be no, at least in alarming quantities to us collectors. From local coin shops to those bullion buyers, there is more of a profit margin in the resale for even circulated extra-fine or above. Doing a quick search, and the current spot at $25.84. One major online metals outlet is buying at $20.41 for each dollar of face value, netting $2.84 in profit minus their premium to sell. Which theoretically would be near $5.00 profit on each dollar's worth they buy. Looking at a few ebay listings with bids, the lowest for a common date extra-fine is $28.50 with 19 bids and yet to close. AU's and mint states are a minimum of $35. Knowing this, as they do also, the profit potential is much greater in the collector market. And unlike the past, the internet opened the flood gates for them. Or so this is my opinion. ANA member - PAN Member - BCCS Member There are no problems only solutions - the late, great John Lennon
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2233 Posts |
This question requires a little thinking: Which has more value to a silver seller: A Morgan dollar, or .7734 ounces of 90% silver? Because that's all a Morgan is, however it has significant numismatic value beyond the silver content, and has for the past 60 years. People have associated these coins with the Wild West, with shows like Gunsmoke and Have Gun, Will Travel, with larger than life figures like Billy the Kid and Jesse James ever since then. To people buying them in the 1960s they were a relic of a bygone era, before the technological revolution and associated luxuries they had then and that we have now. A seller can make $30 or even more by selling a Morgan dollar compared to only about $20 by selling .7734 ounces of .900 silver. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
I would say that a few get melted-but only heavily worn or badly damaged ones.
A lot of sterling cutlery and scrap jewelry IS melted. Sure Morgan and Peace dollars are still being melted but I am sure the numbers are very low. Compared to a century ago, the numbers would be tiny. As oriole noted: common date pieces that are holed or otherwise severely damaged culls are candidates for melting. And even that doesn't mean they get melted just that they might get melted on a given day. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Italy
1130 Posts |
It's interesting because I read the site from 2010. It was a refinery that buys directly from the public. I have to imagine that a large scale refinery is more likely to melt coins vs absorb the costs associated with piecing out coin by coin or even lots of coins to make an extra $5-10 per coin. For a common date Morgan with some wear, it feels like the economies of scale would support tossing them into the smelter vs piecing out espeically if the refindery is dealing with hundreds of pounds of silver per month. Its a curious question . . . is the supply of Morgans and Peace dollars increasing or decreasing. Certainly, the real supply is finite and fixed; but how many Morgans are in hoards in private collections that have not been on the market for 20, 30, 40+ years? How many are traded a year? Even if a few thousand are melted, I imagine the overall supply is still relatively finite and plentiful. . . . |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2216 Posts |
It's impossible to know how many Morgan/Peace are left today or will be in the future. As stated before at least in USA they have both collector value and stacking value HIGHER than smelt value. People stack them, that is they keep the worn ones to sell if silver prices rise or could use them as trade/barter in case there is a financial crisis. Nations that have experienced hyperinflation where their paper currency became more or less worthlees resort to using goods to trade for other goods/services. It's been reported silver/gold jewelry and coins were used this way in Venezuala. In bad economic times, if the banks close, if you can't use your credit/debit card, you can use silver/gold to buy things like food. That's why I have about 120 Morgan/Peace cull (very worn) dollars to use if such a thing happened. In USA collectors also keep worn 90% silver USA coins 1964/older. No doubt the refugees fleeing Ukraine are taking whatever valuable jewelry, silver/gold they have and can carry to use wherever they end up. Very sad. Here's a pic of some of my cull Morgans. They don't have much collector value, they have silver value. I will never have them melted.  Edited by livingwater
03/14/2022 08:57 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
20 years ago I dug in a dealer's silver melt sack going to the refiner. There was no US, all foreign. Most of the coins were common small denomination, like UK 3p and French francs. I did pull out a nice UK Trade dollar. Every dealer I've seen puts their US culls in trays or cans and sells them loose. In the past I've pulled nice walkers and Peace dollars out of those cans. It wasn't worth the dealer's time to put another VG 1919-D in a flip. "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
03/14/2022 11:16 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2216 Posts |
Hey thq, this is off topic but I like your Fred Astaire quote. I live in NE. Fred's childhood home in Omaha has been vacant for years, the city was thinking of tearing it down. Recently someone bought it, wants to repair it and make it a Fred Astaire museum. Others from NE are Henry Fonda, Marlon Brando. One of my friends told me a while back the best dancer ever was Michael Jackson. He'd never seen any of Fred's movies and has since recanted his statement. In fact, Michael honored Fred. Those who watch today's music videos, or performances like this year's halftime Super Bowl, okay there are choreograhed moves, but nothing as complicated or amazing as what Fred could do IMO. It's really not that hard to gyrate your hips, unless your are old like me  Edited by livingwater
03/14/2022 11:32 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
It's from Holiday Inn. Fred is weighing his chances of stealing Bing Crosby's girl. We watch it about once a year.
I picked it because if reflects my lack of interest in dimes.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
It looks like culls are selling for around $30. Has anyone seen these type prices before? So out of line with spot prices?
P.S. I was in a home owned by ginger Rogers mother once .... But that was in California.... Not exactly related .... But sufficiently tangential...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2216 Posts |
Ginger Rogers, talented and beautiful. I haven't seen cull prices this high in quite a while. They were high in 1980 and 2011 when silver price briefly went over $40 per ounce. Premiums are very high now for silver/gold coins, demand is high due to inflation, economy worries, Covid, the war, etc.
Edited by livingwater
03/14/2022 1:39 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Of course some get melted all the time. There are many people that think of Silver coins as just that, coins.
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Replies: 37 / Views: 7,427 |
Posted 03/13/2022 7:35 pm
