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 Replies: 18 / Views: 2,742 |
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1849 Posts |
I don't really collect these, but came across it at a local show some years ago and thought it was a safe bet for 100 euros. I know it has lots of problems - my main question is however, is it real ? It weighs 26,31 grams. Many thanks in advance for your opinions.    Edited by GERMANICVS
04/09/2022 03:17 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2003 Posts |
All I can tell you is that the weight (26.3 g) is consistent with a coin in this grade (F-12).
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5666 Posts |
The date and mintmark positions don't appear to match any of the known VAMs for this date, so my suspicion is not genuine.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Over my pay grade, but wish you well.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
OP  PCGS  OP  PCGS  Here is a genuine PCGS date and CC that is close to the OP coin for the 1893CC. The match is not perfect, but close enough that the OP example appears to be genuine. I am leaning that the example is genuine, but there is also a concern with the denticles on the obverse right side of photo. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Germany
1849 Posts |
Coinfrog, Zurie, MisterT, many thanks for your comments. [quote]Here is a genuine PCGS date and CC that is close to the OP coin for the 1893CC. The match is not perfect, but close enough that the OP example appears to be genuine. I am leaning that the example is genuine, but there is also a concern with the denticles on the obverse right side of photo./quote] Slider23, thank you very much for taking the time to compare with a genuine example  After comparing both sets of pictures I have to agree that the match is actually quite good. For example, a comparison of the position of the stars, date, and individual letters in the peripheral legends relative to the denticles is, far as I can see, very good if not identical. Therefore, it my example does appear genuine. However, I am ready to be challenged. (This is a technique I use with early cents to assess 'genuineness'. ) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
594 Posts |
Do the uprights on the 'L's in Dollar on the PCGS coin look significantly thinner than on the OP coin?
Edited by johnjkedel
04/09/2022 12:40 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
There are 5 main VAM's for 1893-CC, of which the mintmark's appearance is often useful as a diagnostic aid. This coin SHOULD be a VAM-2 based on the right downward tilt of the CC, but the date position is wrong, and so is the overall appearance of the mintmark. Overall, the appearance of the coin is suspect, particularly the reverse lettering in STATES and the obverse surfaces around E PLURIBUS, as well as the inconsistent wear. The legends in general appear "chunky" and thick compared to genuine examples (cf. 'In God We Trust' vs PCGS examples) I do not believe this coin is genuine, but it MAY be a contemporary counterfeit (similar to the 1900-O "Micro O" VAM's, which have a similar appearance in terms of strike and surfaces.) I would strongly recommend authentication. If it IS a contemporary counterfeit that would be an awesome find in and of itself. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1849 Posts |
[quote]There are 5 main VAM's for 1893-CC, of which the mintmark's appearance is often useful as a diagnostic aid. This coin SHOULD be a VAM-2 based on the right downward tilt of the CC, but the date position is wrong, and so is the overall appearance of the mintmark. Overall, the appearance of the coin is suspect, particularly the reverse lettering in STATES and the obverse surfaces around E PLURIBUS, as well as the inconsistent wear. The legends in general appear "chunky" and thick compared to genuine examples (cf. 'In God We Trust' vs PCGS examples) I do not believe this coin is genuine, but it MAY be a contemporary counterfeit (similar to the 1900-O "Micro O" VAM's, which have a similar appearance in terms of strike and surfaces.) I would strongly recommend authentication. If it IS a contemporary counterfeit that would be an awesome find in and of itself./quote] paralyse, thank you very much. VERY interesting! actually, it would be quite interesting if these were a contemporary counterfeit. However, if this is not the case, does it make sense for somebody to make a fake in this lowish grade, knock it about a little to impart assorted minor nicks, marks and dents, and then sell it for 100 dollars? the return is too low for that much trouble, or? I don't know. |
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1849 Posts |
It looks like I not using the QUOTE feature correctly - for some reason the text I would like to quote is not highlighted.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
You are missing the opening bracket "[" at the end of the quote script "/quote]"
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
Overall it looks pretty good. But there are a couple things that concern me. The coin has a slightly reddish look. Can you get an xrf done? The other is the eagle's head, especially the eye. While this might be an effect of wear, it looks misshaped
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2003 Posts |
Lacking access to having an XRF test done, perhaps you can conduct your own specific gravity test if you have a scale that reads to at least two decimal points.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Quote:
(speculative, but..) In the case of the 1900-O (and 1896-O) counterfeits, the organized crime family that controlled the casinos in New Orleans would collect real silver dollars from gambling, melt them down, and use the melted silver to restrike counterfeits in lower fineness silver @paralyse I had not heard that and perhaps you have a different source for information. What I have read from PCGS is that at least one of the contemporary counterfeit O mint coins actually has MORE silver than a real one (94%!). It was a money-maker because the price of silver during the era was less than half the face value of a dollar coin. They didn't have to cheat on the fineness to make 100% profit or more. https://www.PCGS.com/news/PCGS-anno...896-o-1900-o is my source on that. The OP coin looks real to me but I'm not a Morgan guy. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
@kbbpll, you are correct!
(Getting older is not helping my memory!)
I would love to have my 1900-O XRF at some point just to see what the silver content is.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
I vote genuine, I am 99% confident.
Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Replies: 18 / Views: 2,742 |
Posted 04/09/2022 07:21 am
