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 Replies: 31 / Views: 3,215 |
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Valued Member
United States
416 Posts |
Hey folks, I'm trying to do a very minimalist type set of colonials, wanted to get your suggestions on what truly needs to be included. I got what I consider the "big four" state coppers here, there are other states but they seem not as prominent. I need a 1652 silver to start it all off, surely a Fugio Cent must be in there, a Nova Constellatio, I like the idea of that 1791 Washington cent which George himself rejected (I like the Small Eagle version better because it's got those same clouds above the eagle as the later silver stuff). So there's eight, I know there are countless candidates but what would you guys say is "essential"? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
The Fugio and the Nova Constellation aren't colonials. They are U.S. Federal commissions. The colonies ceased to exist on July 4, 1776 - the day when we mark the birth of our nation. 1791, there definitely were no colonies around by that date.
The big 4 coppers you list dated 1786 and 1787 are post-federal state issues. Again, no colonies after 1776.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
05/17/2022 3:01 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
Looks like most of the items you already own could just be renamed Pre-U.S. Mint federal and state coinage. The Mint Act was passed in 1792, so 7 out of the 8 coins you listed fit within this 1776-1792 period.
The 1652 which, I am guessing, refers to the Massachusetts shillings and fractions thereof are the only colonials. Most coinage struck in the U.S. before 1776 is scarce in contrast to the foreign coinage that predominated in commerce in the North American colonies. The natively struck colonial coinage tended to have denominations like shillings and pence as we were predominantly a collection of British colonies, at least as far as the original colonies that made up of our nation. Texas, Florida and California were obvious non-British territories that eventually became U.S. States later.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
NS, would you consider Wood's Hibernia coinage an American Colonial?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
One of the more common colonials that can be had at a reasonable price, even in mint state red condition is the 1773 Virginia half penny. Plentiful even in high grade and a satisfyingly large coin if you don't mind GIII's gluttonous mug.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
Quote:
NS, would you consider Wood's Hibernia coinage an American Colonial? I would consider the Wood's Hibernia an Irish export like the British, Spanish and French coinage that circulated in the colonies. To me there is a distinction when it comes to coinage that was struck in the colonies. These are scarcer and more highly prized by collectors shelling out big bucks. William Wood's Rosa Americana issues on the other hand would be a colonial imho since it appears to be named for use in the American colonies, as opposed to the Hibernia coinage which refers to Ireland. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
05/17/2022 5:15 pm
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Valued Member
United States
362 Posts |
Quote:
The Fugio and the Nova Constellation aren't colonials. They are U.S. Federal commissions. The colonies ceased to exist on July 4, 1776 - the day when we mark the birth of our nation. 1791, there definitely were no colonies around by that date.
The big 4 coppers you list dated 1786 and 1787 are post-federal state issues. Again, no colonies after 1776. Technically  but, I think I see where you are going with your: Quote:
minimalist type set of colonials I have always considered coins minted pre 1793 to be colonials. That said you have a very nice start on your; Quote:
minimalist type set of colonials |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
Quote:
I have always considered coins minted pre 1793 to be colonials. We can agree to disagree, but having been wrong all this time seems like a poor reason for deciding to continue to be wrong in perpetuity. The RedBook now classifies all these coins dated after 1776 as post-colonial. By this logic, the 1792 Half Disme struck in July of 1792 by Mint personnel after the passage of the Coinage Act of 1792 establishing the U.S. Mint on April 12, 1792 would be a colonial. Seems to make little sense. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
05/17/2022 4:40 pm
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Valued Member
United States
362 Posts |
Quote:
seems like a poor reason for deciding to continue to be wrong in perpetuity not looking for a fight here, just giving my opinion.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
I'm not looking for a fight either. Just pointing out that you didn't give a reasonable explanation for why a coin struck after the colonies no longer existed should be called a colonial other than that's what you've always done. Doesn't seem like a great reason.
Arguing a position is not the same as looking for a fight.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
05/17/2022 4:46 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
416 Posts |
Aw nuts, I seem to have pre-sabotaged my own thread. I used "colonials" as an off-hand for "pre-US Mint", which I stand corrected, is wrong. The general gist of what I'm going for is, here are some major types of coin that were minted and used or proposed as currency before the 1792 Half Disme and 1793 chain cent. Some state coppers, some 'candidates' for a national currency, and wonder if I've hit all the major bases. TIA! Edited by TimNH
05/17/2022 4:47 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
I think you have a great foundation for the set you are trying to build OP. If you cross over to add the 1652 Mass shilling, 6 pence, three pence, that is another ball of yarn and a pricey one at that. But it is fun, isn't it?  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
I also consider Ben Franklin and August Dupre's Libertas Americana medal an important pattern that inspired the early flowing hair bust and cap in pole coinage.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Valued Member
United States
416 Posts |
Good info, yes I posted a poll on which 1652 folks would want :) I am actually surprised how kinda/sorta affordable they are in lower grades. Just to reassure myself I'm not crazy, the various ebays and heritages of the world where I search list them under the 'colonial' category, so although incorrect it seems to be a sort of common usage. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1657 Posts |
There are so many ways to go about this. Do you want coins that actually circulated in the colonial- confederation era?, coins actually made here? I would add a Machin's Mills piece, definitely Rosa Americana, St.Patrick coinage was authorized to circulate in New Jersey so I would include that as well. The most common circulating coinage would have been British copper and Spanish silver, so you could include those as well. It all depends on how you want to do it!
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Moderator
 United States
34397 Posts |
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St.Patrick coinage was authorized to circulate in New Jersey so I would include that as well. A good subject for discussion and thank you to all for keeping it civil. I'm not actively collecting these things any more, but the concept of the splash in the St. Patrick Farthings puts this on my list if/when I circle back. "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Replies: 31 / Views: 3,215 |
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Posted 05/17/2022 3:51 pm
