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 Replies: 24 / Views: 2,896 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
630 Posts |
Hello Everyone! Happy New Year! This coin is in a live auction. The images are scanned, and I think they are true. Does this coin, in a TPG holder labeled "XF Details Env. Damage", look like it's made of Brass with a Copper wash? The base coin seems pretty much to be the same color as a Rosa Americana issue. Colonialjohn: I know that you are an expert in off-issue Colonials (did you see Henry D.'s collection of them misplaced in the wrong type of auction?), so I would really like to know your thoughts. Everyone else's too!   Edited by Oldgrouchyguy
01/02/2023 01:26 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
517 Posts |
Is it attributed as to variety Oldgrouchy? Another cast? Interested in the "tells"- thanks!
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
630 Posts |
It appears to be a 2-A. The large maroonish swath on the NOVA side from 6:00-1:00 looks like what's remaining of the plating; there is a stubborn remnant of it seen on the ray under the 1st L. The area between JUSTITIA and the wreath is brown, with no overt corrosion. That "corrosion" seen behind JUSTITIA is from a poor cast-the 2nd I will attest to that
Edited by Oldgrouchyguy
01/03/2023 1:35 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
That's exceedingly odd and interesting at the same time. Good eye.
We know there are contemporary cast Nova C's (see EPN's 1785, but it's very crude and has badly blundered legends and design elements) that sold at Heritage in Nov 2014.
The brassy color looks sort of similar to the color of my 2-B but at least a shade or so lighter. It reminds me of some cast ersatz half-crowns and crowns from the 1810s, which were very lightly silver- or tin-washed over a poor quality brass core. The darker copper color is not too far out of line with dark colonials I've seen.
Would be interested to hear what the C4 folks say about this one. Colonialjohn does stop by here but I don't know if he will see this, may want to shoot him a message.
I can only wonder if someone made a cast and then did a wash with maybe a tin or pewter on top of all and was attempting to pass it as an off-metal pattern piece.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
630 Posts |
I banged this around with a few people; they think that I'm nuts anyway... there probably are a lot more contemporary cast colonial counterfeit coins around than most people realize, and that many are 3PGed only makes things worse. The host was high grade for this one, so maybe done when a cask of genuine coins landed in Philadelphia
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1657 Posts |
May have been a detected coin and that may be the remnants of corrosion. I have dug coins that had a similar reddish corrosion.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
756 Posts |
a cast would have an attachment point for a sprue and a cast will have the wrong specific gravity. Find the sprue and prove that the density is wrong. its academic to verify this claim. prove it or stop speculating.
there are a lot of real coins that have that color of oxidized copper. there are a lot of real coins that have those kinds of pits.
while its impossible to actually counterfeit detect from photos I would buy this coin as real from the photos provided.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
630 Posts |
Carrscoins: A sprue can easily be ameliorated (and not every Cast coin shows it), so that's not a germane point. Attaining the weight of it is impossible, and you know that, so it's a specious argument to make at this time. I can speculate-isn't what this Forum is about, in one fashion or another? What I see, with over 50 years of experience selling just about every type of coin, I don't like. I used to sell Casts to Mike Ringo, and sold him quite a few.He would have liked this one. If you think this coin is The Bomb, go and buy it! That's sort-of why some fish swallow tied flies hook-line-sinker, and some don't. If you don't think it is possible to discern a counterfeit coin from its genuine counterpart by photographs, then maybe this post isn't for you.
Edited by Oldgrouchyguy
01/03/2023 3:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
756 Posts |
show me a verifiably cast counterfeit in a legitimate 3rd party graded holder. youve claimed that several TPG graded coins coins are casts. I'm saying prove it. if you want to make those kinds of claims you need to back them up with facts. to my knowledge there are no cast counterfeits in legit TPG holders. I would love for someone to show me one. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
630 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
756 Posts |
that cert # is currently listed with PCGS as a genuine coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
517 Posts |
I'm lost but that seems to not take much in some of these posts...
Oldgrouchy, are you saying the Vermont RR13 is cast?
I did find the current auction and PCGS cert number for the Nova.
Edited by burfle23
01/03/2023 10:50 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
630 Posts |
Burfle23: I showed the pics to an Expert (you know him) in Machins Mills and counterfeit Brit 1/2d; he agreed that this couldn't have been struck. Things just don't add up.
Edited by Oldgrouchyguy
01/03/2023 8:11 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
517 Posts |
I agree things don't add up; are you referring to the R-13? And who is it that I know stated whichever one couldn't have been struck?
Edited by burfle23
01/03/2023 10:40 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
630 Posts |
Sorry if I'm losing you; I was asked to provide an example of a TPGed counterfeit Colonial (besides the Nova Const.), and I have with the RR-13. I'm guessing not a sand cast for this one; maybe something modern. Don't think this one is contemporary to the times.
Edited by Oldgrouchyguy
01/03/2023 8:48 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
What are the Machin's Mills VT/CT coppers considered nowadays?
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Replies: 24 / Views: 2,896 |
Posted 01/02/2023 3:19 pm
