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 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,405 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6116 Posts |
So I am back at it again with the collar clash thing. Admittedly I have not learned from my mistakes but at least this time I put question marks in the title. This coin shows at least three distinct arcs near the top of the obverse. The first is incuse and in the rim itself. The second to are in the field and raised and wider than one might expect. I'm not sure any of them are particularly concentric. So help me out with this one please! 1919-S Lincoln Wheat cent mint error - collar clash?    |
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8767 Posts |
Very cool looking. Whatever did the damage to the die, it looks like it was deep. You can see distortion to the inside of the rim and the "D", in GOD.
-makecents-
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Moderator
United States
15458 Posts |
Don't know, but interesting for sure.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5780 Posts |
You're probably right but I'm not sure if it can be confirmed. It actually looks like lots of areas of the die gutter at the field had wear from the collar before this coin was struck. Also, the reverse seems to be struck by a tilted die. The rim @K12 is more pronounced than K5. Reverse @K5 it looks like the proto-rim is still there from before the strike. -If struck by tilted dies, do you think these tilted dies may have contributed to the raised marks on the obverse? -I know this is different than the original subject in the title, but do you think the areas of the reverse die gutters on your coin are exhibiting signs of, or is an early stage of a "Die Attrition error"? (Similar to what Stoneman mentioned in the thread in this link? https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...BER_ID=35428 ) Anyways, I love die anomalies. They can get the mental juices flowing. Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19178 Posts |
Interesting conversation. I like where Petespockets55 is going with this.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Just hangin' around to learn.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2376 Posts |
TB , you might experiment with different lighting angles to see if any latent counterclash details present themselves. The curved line at 9 o'clock outside the O of God looks interesting.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2775 Posts |
Anything abnormal with the diameter or about the edge? Thanks, Doug.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2734 Posts |
I agree with stoneman227 that there maybe some counterclash design revealed with different light angles. I see something under the bottom arc but might just be Pareidolia. |
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Moderator
United States
96735 Posts |
Possible that a cent was not ejected properly and the die came down and dented the die, then this (your) coin was struck?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6116 Posts |
Thanks for all the comments! Sorry for the delay but been hit with a stomach bug and it's actually tough to just sit at the computer. I did a bunch of coin wiggling in the light and honestly can't see anything strong enough to verify counterclash. Most of what looks like such in the photos just doesn't show up to the eye so probably nothing. The coin diameter is 19.3 pretty much in all directions. The edge is normal in most areas showing ejection lines and beveling, but near the IN GOD it becomes more shiny and the ejection lines are greatly reduced or non-existant. Not sure it is of importance but in at least one spot the rim shows flow lines which seemed odd. Adding a pic but pretty similar to previous one.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2775 Posts |
Quote:
The coin diameter is 19.3 pretty much in all directions. Hum... Normal dia. 19.05 (mm) Quote:
The edge is normal in most areas showing ejection lines and beveling, but near the IN GOD it becomes more shiny and the ejection lines are greatly reduced or non-existant. Quote:
Not sure it is of importance but in at least one spot the rim shows flow lines which seemed odd. Knowing my question is or was outside your original concern, of a possible collar clash, or is it? Both marks seem out of place. Easy to say the die was dropped and the upper kinda resembles die attrition. A reeded collar clash is easy to throw out there, but a non-reeded or smoothed face collar clash I feel is often over looked or mistaken. More food for thought. Thanks, Doug. https://www.error-ref.com/wide-collar/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6116 Posts |
Mike Diamond was helping me understand a different collar clash issue when I mentioned this coin. He agreed I could add his comments to this thread and always helpful to have his input. Thanks Mike!
" On the 1919 cent, all I can say that these are die dents of some kind. While they could represent a pivoted die that clashed twice with the collar (a "pivoted collar clash"), I view this as rather unlikely. Pivoted die errors are rare in their own right, so it's unlikely that one would co-occur with a clash. Also, the abbreviated nature and inconsistent width of these faint ridges is inconsistent with such a clash.
Serrations make diagnosing such errors a whole lot easier, but even reeded coins seldom cooperate in this regard. Most reeded collars have a beveled entrance that prevent serrations from being transferred to the field of a misaligned die. The inevitable smooth arc would be a lot harder to diagnose."
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Quote:
could represent a pivoted die that clashed twice with the collar (a "pivoted collar clash"), This make sense with your coin. when clash second time let those marks and also on the rim |
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Valued Member
United States
392 Posts |
Beyond my pay grade, but wow, what a neat coin! Congrats TB!
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,405 |
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Posted 01/06/2023 07:17 am
