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1891 P Morgan . Old Harsh Clean

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Pillar of the Community

Italy
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 Posted 01/10/2023  2:07 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Roma2021 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello,

I bought a collection of American silver coins today. I'm terrible at grading Morgans but routinely buy them when I get them for €30 or less (I have about two and a half tubes) .... I know this is a better date, but how badly does the harsh clean impact it's condition? Just curious as I start to tackle my Morgans...looking for VAMs etc.

In hand, she has decent eye appeal... At the angle in the third photo under light... You can see she's been mistreated....


1891-P-Morgan-.-Old-Harsh-Clean


1891-P-Morgan-.-Old-Harsh-Clean


1891-P-Morgan-.-Old-Harsh-Clean

*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
Edited by Roma2021
01/11/2023 07:00 am
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2023  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the VAM site in case you were unaware: http://www.vamworld.com/wiki/Home
John1
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Keith67's Avatar
United States
6559 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2023  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Keith67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin has that Chinese color to it. But that's my opinion
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 Posted 01/10/2023  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JTCC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice dollar!
Yes, cleaned, but solid AU details.
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Italy
1130 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2023  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Roma2021 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Keith, I see A LOT of Chinese morgans in Rome; this one weighs right, correct diamter, and pings on my app under the 'Morgan' setting; looks right under a loupe; I have not had a Chinese fake ping correctly.

Thanks John and JTCC.
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 Posted 01/10/2023  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a hard pass for me.
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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 Posted 01/10/2023  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Roma2021 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@numismaticsftw, why?
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 01/10/2023  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indeed, why?
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 Posted 01/10/2023  7:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You mean besides the zero eye appeal, very harsh cleaning?

I guess nothing

Even though it may not be counterfeit, it no doubt has the fake Chinese look, that is not appealing.
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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ericgreen's Avatar
United States
1512 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2023  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ericgreen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Harsh cleaning takes away most the premium. AU - Details
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Zurie's Avatar
United States
5672 Posts
 Posted 01/11/2023  08:10 am  Show Profile   Check Zurie's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU details, cleaned. The date position looks consistent with VAM-6. Agree that the value is impacted significantly by the harsh cleaning.
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panzaldi's Avatar
United States
18665 Posts
 Posted 01/11/2023  09:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I know this is a better date

this is a common date

XF details (harshly cleaned)

mo worth melt due to the cleaning or maybe a couple $$ more but not much. I dont think its worth €30. for me its a pass as well but your location makes it a challenge to find decent examples
Pillar of the Community
Italy
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 Posted 01/11/2023  10:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Roma2021 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all... I tend to blindly follow PCGS on what it lists as common, less common, etc.

I buy near any Morgans I find here at €30 or less... Peace dollars at €25 or less...for no other reason than "why not"?

The coin market here is strange. I've explained this under other threads, but polished coins are not without a premium; either to buy or sell.

And... A LOT is still melted...I've confirmed this with three dealers. A few "compro Oro" and "cambio" shops buy exclusively to melt. They do not sell to the public. They buy at 15-30% back and melt.

Thanks again everyone.
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
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 Posted 01/12/2023  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU-50 details, cleaned.
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 Posted 01/12/2023  3:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Roma2021 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bought these three today from a private seller for €55.

I find a lot of half dollars in Rome and typically pay €4-10. I'm surprised so many halves made it here.


1891-P-Morgan-.-Old-Harsh-Clean
1891-P-Morgan-.-Old-Harsh-Clean
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panzaldi's Avatar
United States
18665 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2023  3:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the 83, 84 morgan and the walker are decent and look like they would grade straight. i'd say at €55 is pretty good price. in the US I would think they would sell for around $100. nice pick up
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