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Replies: 126 / Views: 30,091 |
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Moderator
 United States
54283 Posts |
WOW, so cool!
Can someone post a link to the article itself? or maybe Mike can reproduce some or all of the article here.
Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2738 Posts |
While there is slight Die Deterioration, calling attention to it on the slab label is unwarranted. It can also be seen (incorrectly) as implying that the extra letter is a byproduct of that "die erosion". The label is a poor one, in that no explanation is provided for the extra letter and because the minor Die Deterioration takes top billing over the much more significant extraneous letter.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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New Member
 United States
39 Posts |
Should I pry an explanation of of them?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2738 Posts |
In my experience, you won't get a satisfactory answer (or any answer at all).
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2741 Posts |
Yes the "die erosion" description is unnecessary but it is a nice grade and you now have the "VDB V" on a label. Come to think of it, the "on shoulder" was an unnecessary description as well because where else would VDB be?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5785 Posts |
Quote: ....The V is incuse and is definitely NOT a dropped letter .... This got me to wondering if anyone knows of any examples of dropped letters on working dies (which would make the extra letter "raised" on the coin)? If I'm understanding this correctly the extra "V" would be raised on the working die and couldn't be scratched or gouged into the die by an employee. It would have to be extra metal on the die in the shape of a "V" and in almost perfect alignment with the "VDB". This seems to be why the software glitch might be the best explanation. (I kind of wish the "V" was raised, like it seems to be in GorhamCollectors image, based on the shadows.)
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups. We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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New Member
United States
1 Posts |
Been staring at mine for a bit and while I believe it is cut into the coin versus raised, my mind seems to see it both ways lol.  Also this one definitely has the forehead die chip.
Edited by tylery85 04/25/2023 12:09 am
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Moderator
 United States
97433 Posts |
looking at the shadows, it does appear to be raised, albeit not as much as the VDB,
But nice job on getting it noted on the slab. Now get some 'yellow-out' and get rid of the unnecessary statements they put on it.. lol
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Forum Dad
 United States
24173 Posts |
NGC Label.... 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
Well this was interesting. I wonder if its possible for this to be a form of ejection impact doubling since its happened on recent 2017-p quarters and possibly also the 2023-P Bessie Coleman Quarter With Doubled Initials I mentioned in another thread where the letters were quite visible but different among coins, and is capable to make the extra letter shifted a full letter length (1.0 mm) away and in more than 1 direction which can explain what we are all seeing. In quarters it doesn't come up often - Duplicated incuse peripheral letters appear on the reverse face of the 2017-P Frederick Douglass 25c, the 2017-P George Rogers Clark 25c, and the 2017-P Ellis Island 25c. More than one duplicate set of letters may appear. Within a single coin, the extra letters may be shifted in more than one direction relative to the normal letters. Rotational and medial displacement can be severe The corresponding raised letters on the hammer (reverse) die face are the features most likely to make light contact with a coin that has been launched upward or a coin that has been thrust upward by the anvil die in preparation for ejection. https://www.error-ref.com/ejection-...ct-doubling/Wouldnt that be more possible @Mike than some of the alternatives you are mentioning?
Edited by datadragon 05/16/2023 12:44 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2738 Posts |
The extra V is incuse and invariant across a large sample. The only explanation that makes sense at the moment is an intentionally modified working hub.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
Quote: The extra V is incuse and invariant across a large sample. The only explanation that makes sense at the moment is an intentionally modified working hub. Thanks Mike, The recently found 2023-P Bessie Coleman quarters with doubled initials are also incuse and may be caused by ejection impact doubling which is what I thought might be going on with that one. It is even more extreme/clear in the initials than in the past such as on your error-ref examples. However those are variable after seeing many posted and in person, and your examples so far here you say are not different, at least from the samples we know. very interesting, will have to keep an eye out for any differences 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
Very interesting that a new example was posted but with a different location. http://goccf.com/t/446830&I had just thought that would suggest its not on the die since we may have an example now that its in different locations. ejection impact doubling was my thought if that was found in more locations and not fixed since it looks like its also happening on the 2023 bessie coleman quarter http://goccf.com/t/441035 and before on recent 2017-p quarters. That is capable to make the extra letter shifted a full letter length away and in more than 1 direction which can explain what we are all seeing. If so that might also suggest it can be found beyond just at the bottom of the bust. On quarters it doesn't come up often - Duplicated incuse peripheral letters appear on the reverse face of the 2017-P Frederick Douglass 25c, the 2017-P George Rogers Clark 25c, and the 2017-P Ellis Island 25c. More than one duplicate set of letters may appear. Within a single coin, the extra letters may be shifted in more than one direction relative to the normal letters. Rotational and medial displacement can be severe. -David
Edited by datadragon 06/07/2023 11:15 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
646 Posts |
Edited by CherryPicker1 06/07/2023 10:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
@Mike Diamond, another one here rotated and different placement/size. http://goccf.com/t/448072 While they of course can be circulation hits if all others are invariant, it keeps leaning more toward either some type of ejection impact doubling based on past knowledge or something new as its been mentioned that new Schuler MRH horizontal coin minting presses are used now. One link said there may even be differences in the different models being used in the feeding and ejecting components as well and says the mint uses the Schuler MRH 150 (horizontal) for quarters. So that may be another lead for you as to some of the more interesting finds we are now seeing, just gathering some additional info.
Edited by datadragon 06/13/2023 07:58 am
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Replies: 126 / Views: 30,091 |