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Question: Do People Come Here To See If Their Fake Coins Are Passable?

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United States
35 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2023  01:00 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Cereal_Killer to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was just curious if this forum could be a counterfeiters "quality control" of sorts? If I made fake coins that is undoubtedly what I would do before trying to sell it. I'm not saying every fake coin should bring suspicion on the person posting it, I'm just wondering if the experts here make note of such possibilities?
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HondoB's Avatar
United States
24984 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2023  01:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HondoB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nah, they put them out on the bay and other sites which shall not be named.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16808 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2023  02:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would say yes, of course, an Internet forum such as this can become a "university for counterfeiters".

Which is one reason why we tend not to describe all at once everything that's "wrong" with a fake ancient coin when it's posted. No need to help the enemy too much.

The really really good fakes, the ones that are impossible to tell just from pictures on the Internet, well there's not much we can do about those - unless we stop offering opinions entirely.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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nss-52's Avatar
United States
54280 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2023  08:42 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is your question hypothetical, or do you have some posts you think might be by counterfeiters?
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2023  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would say a few probably do.
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7934 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2023  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Generally speaking, yes, counterfeiters (or people who would like to sell counterfeits from some source) are putting them out on coin forums. I remember one guy with a parade of medieval gold types on another forum, all fake, but all pretty well executed. Of course they were from his grandfather's collection, and they just needed help identifying them .
Edited by tdziemia
09/06/2023 1:00 pm
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187702 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2023  10:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There have been a few in the past. They got caught and the posts were removed, so do not go looking for examples.
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24150 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2023  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, but between RGoodie, myself, and my traps in the coding 99% never get a post off. Supplied country and actual country are usually different. Usually US supplied and either China or Pakistan actual. I subscribe to a service that looks up the country in an always current DB and returns a country with 99.8% accuracy. So the code puts the country flag in the profile that only the Staff can see and it sticks right out if it doesn't match. (I'll likely remove this before the end of the day so they don't read it.)
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kbbpll's Avatar
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2023  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm curious what the content of those trapped and removed posts generally is, and how frequent. My feeling (maybe without much to back it up) is that "there's a sucker born every minute" and these counterfeiters have plenty of customers as-is without going to the time and expense of making new dies just because a forum says a date or mint mark position is wrong for a certain coin. The percentage of real buyers who post somewhere first to confirm before buying a fake seems pretty low to me, so the market for the fakers is largely just making them "good enough." It does present a quandary for forums. If we don't tell them what's wrong with their coin, how are they going to learn to recognize the fakes?
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Portugal
655 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2023  7:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jecz79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I had no idea this was common. Useful information.
I was always wary of publishing good pictures of rare coins, to avoid facilitating the work of forgers. But now there are good pictures of everything from auctions. And now I learn that one should be wary of telling too much about how to detect fakes.

A suggestion. It could be useful to collect the images from those posts, before removing. And some day publish a catalog of fakes and suspected fakes.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16808 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2023  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My feeling (maybe without much to back it up) is that "there's a sucker born every minute" and these counterfeiters have plenty of customers as-is without going to the time and expense of making new dies just because a forum says a date or mint mark position is wrong for a certain coin.

True. While some are always seeking to improve their market share and profits by making better and better fakes, most counterfeiters, and certainly all their middlemen, aren't really interested in "improving" their product too much. Counterfeit coins don't need to be "perfect", they only need to be "good enough" to fool one person, once, and it's mission accomplished for the counterfeiter.

The "fraudulent use" that counterfeiters are far more likely to try to use a forum like ours for, is simply to give some kind of air of authenticity to the fakes they are already making. If they post a fake coin on a forum, and everybody's all "Ooooh, wow, that's amazing, super rare, worth thousands of dollars", and nobody is skeptical, then that's a counterfeiter's lucky strike gold mine. They can then post their fake coin for sale for a few hundred dollars, and post a link to that forum thread in their sale listing. People will read the thread and think they're buying a genuine coin for a bargain.

So it's always important to call out a fake, clearly and unambiguously, politely but firmly. Even for coins that aren't clear and obvious fakes, the possibility that it might be a higher-quality fake that can't easily be spotted over photos on the Internet should be aired, especially for new members for whom their only forum participation is seeking opinions on authenticity of their coins.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16677 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2023  01:26 am  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My advice is only buy from reputable dealers with 100% feedback on ebay.
Do not even think about buying from anyone with a (0) feedback rating. That is a recipe for disaster and most of them are scam artists that will take your money and not send you anything.
If it's too good to be true..
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nss-52's Avatar
United States
54280 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2023  08:04 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It has been my experience that the mass marketed counterfeits (gold bars, Am Silver & Gold Eagles, etc.) have intentional small differences from genuine items.
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