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Couple Of 1897 Barber Half Counterfeits. Need Help With Possible Content

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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 10/17/2023  6:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm hoping maybe we can get some idea from pics and the other specs. Weights are very different so I'm guessing they are different materials.

1897 S Barber Half Counterfeit
https://www.coincommunity.com/us_ha...terfeits.asp

1897 O Barber Half Counterfeit
https://www.coincommunity.com/us_ha...terfeits.asp

Any other insights on anything would be welcomed as well. Like method of manufacture perhaps?
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 10/17/2023  6:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting links, can't offer any input.
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 Posted 10/17/2023  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm trying to document them as best I can but I can't afford an XRF.
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Hondo Boguss's Avatar
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 Posted 10/17/2023  7:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hondo Boguss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Their specific gravity might shed light on their composition, Bobby.
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kbbpll's Avatar
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 Posted 10/18/2023  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Both coins look like they've been painted silver and it's bubbling off. Maybe it's just the images. Both appear to have the correct obverse hub type for the years - often counterfeiters use the same obverse for a variety of dates and end up with the wrong type for some years. Perhaps not very useful but those are my observations. They seem intended for circulation and not for collectors, but that's only a hunch.
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 Posted 10/19/2023  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jpsned to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those two fakes look like they were made using some kid's lead soldier kit.
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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 10/19/2023  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Way too light for lead.
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 10/20/2023  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is out of my wheelhouse but I'm going to guess they are mold-cast copies or even electrotypes, probably tin-washed copper plating over a lead or bronze core. The edges would have been filed down to remove the seam; the reeding looks to be applied with a collar of some sort.
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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 10/20/2023  07:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good info, I'll be adding a notes section to each one. They don't have to be factual as long as we're honest about guessing.
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kbbpll's Avatar
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 Posted 10/20/2023  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Separate suggestion - in the Barber half dollars page under Books, you could add a link to the David Lawrence book, which is uploaded online here https://archive.org/details/compgui...awr/mode/2up
You could also add a link to the Bowers Red Book, A Guide Book of Barber Silver Coins - 3rd edition now. The Lawrence books for dimes and quarters are also online.
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DOCC's Avatar
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 Posted 10/21/2023  11:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DOCC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm trying to document them as best I can but I can't afford an XRF.


If you have a local metal recycling plant chances are good they have one onsite. I recently needed access - can't afford one either - and found Pacific Steel charged $5 to pull the trigger. Might be worth calling around.
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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 10/21/2023  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, maybe. But I've got a bunch of them here.
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colonialjohn's Avatar
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 Posted 10/22/2023  10:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At this time I have our resident Moderator from another site checking if he has cataloged these two 50C types. Winston Zack. In terms of their metallurgy expect the top one in your post to be some type of White Metal (Sb/Sn/Cu or Pb alloy). Due to its weight differential downward and quite large BTW expect Sn to be in this assay. Its a CCC. Not a modern Chinese import. 100% certainty. The second piece has silvering which in many cases is a mercuric silver amalgamation which is normally over copper based alloy but in this case its a non-copper based alloy based on your photo. Again an excellent CCC period piece - 100% certainty. If Winston Zack our resident Moderator/Expert on U.S. Federal CCCs responds I will add the extra information here. John Lorenzo, Numismatist.
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bobby131313's Avatar
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 Posted 10/22/2023  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks John!
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Petespockets55's Avatar
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 Posted 10/22/2023  11:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting.
Pawn shops and jewelry stores might have an XRF.

I have taken coins and objects found metal detecting to a pawn shop with an XRF and they let me take an image of the screen to document the percentage of each metal in the alloy.
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