| Author |
 Replies: 17 / Views: 1,182 |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4415 Posts |
Collectors often allude to the history attached to their coins, simply based on the year it was struck. I've long sought out coins that are counterstamped, as these pieces offer the opportunity for me to attach true, specific history to these artifacts. Pictured below is one of many discovery pieces that I've been able to attribute to a specific individual; this, for over a span of forty years now.   This coin languished on ebay for some time, as it had a $100 BIN price. That's high for a maverick, unattributed counterstamp, hosted on a low grade, common date large cent. It was only after I was able to attribute the stamp, digest and appreciate the history of this issuer, that I hit the BIN button. Lysander W. Babbitt was a gunsmith and frontiersman during his early years. Starting out from Lockport, NY, he opened a shop in Cleveland, Ohio at 14 Bank Street. He appears in the city's 1837 directory as a gunsmith and cutler. By 1838, he'd relocated to Burlington, Iowa Territory. During this time, he actively traded with midwestern Indian tribes. As the trading necessitated travel, Lysander took on business partners to mind the shop. His business proving successful, Lysander ceased wandering in the mid 1840's and settled down with his wife and two children, while pursuing other careers. The portrait below depicts him later in life, when he was active in politics and was owner-editor of a newspaper. He's listed in the 1850 census as being 39 years old. He died in Arkansas in 1885. Pictured below his portrait is a flintlock rifle that Lysander made and a close-up pic of the rifle's barrel mark. Note that this stamp matches that on his coin, making for a slam-dunk attribution.    Here's the 1837 Cleveland directory listing for Lysander. It's possible that his stamp may someday be found on a knife, too.  As Lysander traveled a good deal, and the host coin is dated 1816, it's seemingly impossible to ascribe the counterstamp to a specific location. That said, Lysander became a postmaster in Knoxville, Iowa in 1846. As this counterstamp is the only one known to date, it was likely a personal, pocket piece; this, as opposed to having been an advertising piece. It was probably stamped when Lysander was making guns, circa 1830-43. Still, other coins stamped by Lysander may exist, and time will tell .... |
|
|
|
Moderator
 United States
187578 Posts |
Very interesting!  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1484 Posts |
Great backstory, as always!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
1460 Posts |
That is really cool! Thanks for sharing!
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
363 Posts |
Great research and history...well done as always Exoguy
|
|
Moderator
United States
34393 Posts |
Great work chasing this one down @exo. Based on the timing of his business and the date on this coin, I'm thinking that this cent was well-circulated prior to the stamp. As a likely pocket piece, there doesn't seem to be much wear post-stamping. Is that how you see it?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Excellent research ExoGuy, as usual and interesting back history as well, glad you were able to put it all together and acquire the counterstamped coin for your collection.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
4415 Posts |
Quote:
As a likely pocket piece, there doesn't seem to be much wear post-stamping. Is that how you see it? Yes, Spence, that's my guess. Despite a solid attribution, where counterstamps are concerned, there's inevitably some degree of speculation to be made. These pieces do tend to spur one's imagination about the issuer and his motivations. There's another interesting backstory about Lysander. At the time, Idaho was simply-put, a largely unsettled territory. During one of his longer frontier excursions, a man reported that Lysander and his companion had been killed by warring Indians. Much to the dismay of Lysander's family and friends, this news was published back home. Needless to say, they were surprised and over-joyed when Lysander returned home some weeks later. There was no indication later provided as to why the source created this "fake" news. (Note that I attempted to post the news articles, but the files were too large.) Thanks to all for the kindly replies! The gunsmith c/s's seem to be the most popular, so I thought I'd use one for my first post of the New Year. Hopefully, I can pick up the pace a bit this year.  Edited by ExoGuy
01/01/2024 8:34 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
24894 Posts |
Fantastic work, ExoGuy!
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
He sure got around! A quick search shows he was also mayor of Council Bluffs IA 1859-1861. He seems to have been editor of the Council Bluffs Bugle in 1870, and had previously owned the newspaper some years prior. Lots of political involvement, as you said. An L.W.Babbitt was a charter member of the Caledonia Masonic Lodge in New Albany OH in 1868, but perhaps that was a different person, as he appears to have been well-entrenched in Iowa by then.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
73595 Posts |
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing. Errers and Varietys.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
Some days it feels like you are single-handedly elevating this market. Hope it catches on. Happy new year. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4415 Posts |
Quote:
An L.W. Babbitt was a charter member of the Caledonia Masonic Lodge in New Albany OH in 1868 ... Possibly, his was a namesake, given to and from an admiring relative? It seems that this was a fairly common practice back then. Quote:
Some days it feels like you are single-handedly elevating this market. Hope it catches on. I'm doing my part, but it's a relatively small one. I've long been in touch with five other c/s collectors who are doing their part as well. Catching on, it is. Auction results seem to be influencing the c/s market more than anything. The prices realized for this material has risen sharply in the past twenty years; this, as auction house archives attest. Heritage and Stacks are the chief influencers. I'd liken the rise of interest in c/s's to that of Civil War tokens. Back in the 1970's to early 80's, the most common tokens sold for $3-$5, apiece. Presently, they're selling in the $17-$20 range. Both the CW tokens and the c/s's are largely valued for their history and scarcity of better issues. Edited by ExoGuy
01/02/2024 2:59 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Quote:
Possibly, his was a namesake, given to and from an admiring relative? It seems that this was a fairly common practice back then. There were a lot of Babbitt's and one even owned the Council Bluffs Bugle before Lysander who apparently was not related. https://iagenweb.org/pottawattamie/...chapter5.htm "The senior member of this firm was Hon. L. W. Babbitt, but no relation to A. W. Babbitt, the first editor." My own family history is filled with the "common practices" you allude to - parents naming their kids using their friend's names, those friends doing the same, and then those friend's kids marrying each other and doing the same, and it all gets very confusing. The Ohio connection with the Masonic temple Babbitt I thought might be connected, but you're right, probably a different Babbitt family and no indication of what L stood for. Not sure if you've seen this, but his findagrave info has an image of his obituary, which might fill in a few pieces of the timeline. If you follow the tree, his grandson was also named Lysander. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial...kins-babbitt I wonder why he moved to Arkansas? His wife, daughter, and grandson were all buried in Pottawattamie County, Iowa. (Other grandchildren elsewhere) I got interested in this mainly because my grandfather was born in Council Bluffs in 1900. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4415 Posts |
THANKS, kbbpll !! There's lots of additional info in the second obit. I often check the Find-a-Grave website but didn't do that in this case. I obviously need to make it more of a habit. On occasion, I've posted pics of a subject's c/s and/or other info on that website. I also keep paper files to eventually accompany a c/s when it moves on to the next owner. As such, I've printed out copies of Lysander's obits. Help is ALWAYS appreciated !! |
| |
Replies: 17 / Views: 1,182 |
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use
|
| Coin Community Forum |
© 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums |
| It took 0.48 seconds to rattle this change. |
 |
|
Posted 01/01/2024 5:21 pm
