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"Rare" What Does It Mean?

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Pillar of the Community

United States
541 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2024  9:30 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add retiredkper to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I see the word rare used may times and am wondering exactly what makes a coin rare rather than say scarce. I would assume mintage is the first thing to consider What would the mintage range be for a rare coin? I did some exhibit judging years ago and many thought that if a coin is expensive then it is rare. My attitude is how long would it take to find another of the same coin deemed rare, if you had the money in hand to buy the coin? That is why for example I would not consider a 1909 s vdb as rare. Has anyone ever published a rarity guide line? What about paper money and tokens?
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Canada
402 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2024  11:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cdngmt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rare as used by sellers is best defined as 'puffery' much like the description of a used car as being only driven by a little old lady to the grocery store. That is just a term used by sellers to make their product more alluring and better value.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16816 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2024  12:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Rare" in the antiques industry - which very broadly includes coins - does have a technical meaning: something that is towards the higher end of the rarity scale. It is rarer than "scarce", but not as rare as "unique". It can have modifiers beyond basic "rare" eg. "very rare" and "extremely rare". Exactly how many identical items would fall into the "rare" category depends to a large extent on supply and demand. From the point of view of an Early American Cent collector, no Lincoln Cent, not even the 1909-S-VBD, would qualify as "rare", but from the point of view of a Lincoln Cent collector, the 1909-S-VDB certainly is "rare".

From the point of view of ebay, however, "Rare" (and its adjectivally extended versions) has been reduced to a meaningless attention-getting space filler, like "LQQK". To qualify as rare on ebay, it seems all you need is for it to not have a better than 50% chance of finding one in circulation this week.

On the general subject of rarity, it is linked to supply and demand - specifically, the "supply" side. "Supply" is essentially mintage multiplied by survival rate. It is usually proportional to mintage, but not necessarily so - the 1933 double eagle is an extreme example of rarity-mintage disconnect: it has a mintage of 445,000 which wouldn't see it classified as "rare" for that series - except we know that virtually the entire mintage was melted down before it was issued, making the original mintage figure effectively meaningless.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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classic_coin's Avatar
United States
157 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2024  12:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add classic_coin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Has anyone ever published a rarity guide line?

Yes, there have been rarity scales around for decades, surprised you've never come across them:
https://www.providentmetals.com/kno...y-scale.html
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/rarity-scale/8939
https://usrarecoinsonline.com/coin-...information/
etc
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MisterT's Avatar
United States
2003 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2024  02:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sap pretty much makes the point. I will add that you must consider two forms of "rarity". First is absolute rarity which is largely defined by the total mintage and survival rate of a particular coin. Secondly would be condition rarity in which the population of even a common date coin may be almost impossible to acquire in a high grade or top pop.
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John1's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 03/09/2024  04:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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nss-52's Avatar
United States
54280 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2024  05:10 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"rare", by definition, just means "not occurring very often". Getting a Wheat cent in change is "rare".

"rare" on ebay frequently means seller wants you to think it is more valuable.

Right now, there are over 190,000 listings in the coins and paper money category described as "rare".

A "rare" 1943 Lincoln Cent because it is made of steel.
A "rare" bicentennial quarter.
A "rare" 1969 Roosevelt dime because it has no mint mark.
A "rare" 2016-D Presidential dollar.
A "rare" 2005-D Jefferson nickel.

also:
A "rare" 1899 $10 gold PR-67

"scarce", by definition, means "deficient in quantity or number compared with the demand : not plentiful or abundant".

A scarce item is often properly described as rare (occurs infrequently).
A rare item may not necessarily be scarce (a steel cent, for example).

Unfortunately, these two words are often used as if they were equivalent.
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kbbpll's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 03/09/2024  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can define "rare" in terms of demand, which the rarity scales don't account for. A coin can be rare but not expensive, or expensive but not truly rare. That's probably obvious to most on here. I see the latter referred to as "money coins." If you have the money, you can easily get one, as you've pointed out. You can also categorize in different ways so that a coin is both rare and common. A die pair can be rare but the date/MM isn't. The difference between scarce and rare is purely subjective I think.
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United States
541 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2024  1:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add retiredkper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone. Yes Classic I have but most seem to be limited to certain times and places. I remember as a beginner (1950's) the first coin books I saw where in the public library and one of them did have a rarity scale in the intro. For world coins it was like Very rare = 20 pcs Rare = 100 pcs etc. Can't remember which book but I thought it was a good idea at the time.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188052 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2024  11:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rare is how I preferred my steak back when I still ate beef.
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7936 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2024  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My attitude is how long would it take to find another of the same coin


I agree.
Here is the tdz rarity index:
Very rare - cannot find more than one sale of the coin in any of the normal places like acsearch in the last 20 years.
Rare - fewer than 5 sales

Nothng else deserves this adjective. The 1909SVDB is not rare, except by comparison to other Lincoln Cents, which is a myopic viewpoint.

And rarity should not be confused with selling price. Many, many coins exist which are rarer than the 1804 U.S. dollar. They just happen to not be as valuable (see here: http://goccf.com/t/428192 )



Edited by tdziemia
03/13/2024 8:44 pm
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ijn1944's Avatar
United States
19142 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2024  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll need to check the Outback menu again for how they prepare 'rare' steaks...
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Collects82's Avatar
United States
1316 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2024  11:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collects82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A coin is expensive if it has a lot of demand for it. Thousands of us want an 1804 Dollar or a $4 Stella or a 1933 Double Eagle the Feds wont haunt us for.

True rarity is a matter of count.

The keys to series, especially anything 1900s might be relatively expensive, but there are a few thousand of them floating around. There just happen to be enough people wanting them to keep values inflated.

On the flip side, my 382 AD dated Western Satraps coin with the ruler Simhasena has maybe 5ish specimens known. Its worth less than $1k because only a few nerd out in this realm.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188052 Posts
 Posted 03/14/2024  09:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'll need to check the Outback menu again for how they prepare 'rare' steaks...


Quote:
The 1909SVDB is not rare, except by comparison to other Lincoln Cents, which is a myopic viewpoint.
This is true. Pricey, yes — for me at least. Rare? Nope. I am watching several on ebay right now.
Valued Member
United States
90 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2024  10:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bikergeek to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The word "rare" doesn't mean anything to me unless I read it in a very reputable, scholarly work. As an advertisement, it's meaningless. I do care about the Sheldon scale and track the scarcity of my area of interest, capped bust Half Dimes by die marriage / remarriage, according to this scale. For many of the classic series, the R- numbers are estimated (or even known!) and it is very helpful. For more modern, plentiful, issues, this isn't particularly helpful. Even the famous 1909-s VDB cent had 484k minted - an "R-1" estimate, but still a key for the many Lincoln Cent aficionados. By contrast, there are only nine 1835 LM-12 capped bust Half Dimes - I counted 'em recently - and I've owned two of them. Supply and demand at work... :-)

Rarity Estimated Number in Present Existence
R-1 Greater than 1,250 specimens known
R-2 501 - 1,250
R-3 201 - 500
R-4 76 - 200
R-5 31 - 75
R-6 13 - 30
R-7 4 - 12
R-8 2 - 3
Unique 1 (sometimes aka R-9)
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