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 Replies: 28 / Views: 2,444 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Or just a coin show report. Just got back from our usual 3rd Sunday coin show in Illinois. Used to have one on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd Sunday of every Month, all year long. On a table in the front was a notice of a new coin show here on the 4th Sunday of every Month, all year long. Schedules for that one are already posted for all months until December. Also, a notice of the Illinois Numismatic Association show Sept. 17th, 18th, 19th, 2009 in Tinley Park. Approximately 220 tables. Odd that there was no mention or notice for the International coin show April 23rd, 24th, 25th and 26th in Rosemont. So the economy is poor, HUH? At the Itasca show today for the second time they had to open a second room, also the main aisle due to the amount of dealers. Naturally the place was well packed with buyers too. Show was supposed to start at 9AM but someone I know told me he was there a little after 8AM and many dealers were already set up. I wandered around for about an hour but realized with the crowd crowing, the chances of haggling prices with any dealer would not be to good. Stopped at my usual dealer in books who was supposed to get me a 2009 hard cover Red Book but still all sold out but working on that for me. Every year I get about 10 Ringed versions for Christmas Presents but last year forgot my own hard cover version. I purchased 1 hard cover 2010 and 2 ringed version of the 2010 Red Book. Stopped at two of my favorite dealers and blew way to much money and not on anything of great importance. Although in a constant search for the best Mercury dimes I did purchase a 35D, 36D, 37S all MS-63 raw and one PCGS slabbed 30S at MS-64. Not a slab person so on my way to the garage to break that coin out. Somehow I did manage to buy 32 coins there. As usual mostly all elderly men customers, same with the dealers. Athough the ages of the dealers was much lower than the customers. One female dealer and oddly about in her 20's, only saw 3 kids. After not to long the place got so crowded it was difficult to get through the aisles so I left. So is this a sign of how bad the economy is? |
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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts |
I think it's precisely because the economy is bad that coins are doing so well. They have proven tangible value, which, as you've pointed out, really haven't gone down in price over the years. I've observed bullion in particular is doing a booming business.
Are you going to that big internatational coin show at the Crown Plaza in Chicago this coming weekend Carl?
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Moderator
 United States
16677 Posts |
Rare coins are a non-taxable investment vehicle that traditionally, as already mentioned, have never really lost value but in fact, have gone up. People want to put their money in safe havens or investments which, over the long term, will appreciate. Not to get overly political but with big Government with their hands in every aspect of our lives, it's just smart, IMO, to put money into something the Government doesn't know you have (no paper trail). If they knew you had it, they would find a way to tax it.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts |
Quote:
Not to get overly political but with big Government with their hands in every aspect of our lives, it's just smart, IMO, to put money into something the Government doesn't know you have (no paper trail). If they knew you had it, they would find a way to tax it. Sounds like you're advocating owning coins as a way to beat taxes.  Right now anyway, the govt. doesn't tax the value of any coins you own. It's only when you sell that you have a taxable event. You're supposed to keep track of the amount you paid and if you sell, any amount over that price is a capital gain. Capital gains are reported on Schedule D of your U.S. federal tax return. I'm sure all you sellers are doing this.  For small time sellers, it is unlikely the feds will ever come after you for not reporting income, but if you meet the threshold income for filing a return, you are still supposed to report all your income. Up to you. Edited by chasinva69
04/19/2009 1:48 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
20753 Posts |
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Are you going to that big internatational coin show at the Crown Plaza in Chicago this coming weekend Carl?
Every year I swear I will not go to any show in that area. Not only this one but the ones at the Rosemont Convention Center also. I just don't like the situation where there is no place to park, eat, etc except the place your in there. Last time $11 to park per day. $5 to get in the show but good for two days. What really gets me is I live about 5 miles from there and if healtheir I'd walk there but no pay, pay, pay. And the show dosen't start until 10AM. And they mean it. They normally will not let you in at even 9:55AM. Yes I'll be there as usual. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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the feds will ever come after you for not reporting income, but if you meet the threshold income for filing a return, you are still supposed to report all your income. Up to you.
Sounds like someone that has never been to a flea market, yard sale, estate sale, garage sale, etc. We have a flea market not far from me that in the top of the Summer there may well be over 1,000 dealers. About half sell new items. Sales taxes? Not likely. Coin shows, gun shows, knife shows, camera shows, computer shows and on and on and on. Not may IRS personal there taking notes. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1840 Posts |
In my opinion an increase in sellers may not be the sign of a robust economy. Hosting a table could be a way of supplementing your income (or lack thereof). More dealers also means more competitive pricing and potentially more bargains.
The fact that the majority of buyers are elderly may also point to a slow economy. Often their disposable income remains consistent because it comes from pensions and social security. If they have a retirement account like a 401K, they are required to make withdrawals from it.
I've noticed a lot more people looking to sell coins to the dealers in the last few shows that I have attended in Massachusetts. Also, when I ask to see a specific coin, the dealers immediately take 5-10% off of the listed price before I even express an interest in buying it. This has happened on at least a dozen occasions.
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Moderator
United States
16677 Posts |
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Capital gains are reported on Schedule D of your U.S. federal tax return. I'm sure all you sellers are doing this. You betcha  swcoin.ecrater.com
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Valued Member
United States
325 Posts |
The place I went to yesterday to buy some coins wouldn't even sell them to me because the guy that handles the coin sales was out of town. His economy must be doing great. All I wanted was a 1928d $2.00 note in XF/AU, a few Buffalo nickels and a Peace dollar. I'm supposed to go back Tuesday to talk to him. |
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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts |
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Sounds like someone that has never been to a flea market, yard sale, estate sale, garage sale, etc. We have a flea market not far from me that in the top of the Summer there may well be over 1,000 dealers. About half sell new items. Sales taxes? Not likely.
Coin shows, gun shows, knife shows, camera shows, computer shows and on and on and on. Not may IRS personal there taking notes.
maybe you missed what I said. I said it was unlikely the feds would ever come after small time sellers. I think the IRS has more important things to do than visiting flea markets. That doesn't mean there is "flea market exception" in the federal tax code, however. There isn't. Like I said, up to you. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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maybe you missed what I said. I said it was unlikely the feds would ever come after small time sellers. I think the IRS has more important things to do than visiting flea markets. That doesn't mean there is "flea market exception" in the federal tax code, however. There isn't. Like I said, up to you.
Oddly enough I USED to think the same way. However, I would consider a flea market of over 1,000 sellers not exactly small time. Someone that works at this one told me they usually have over 100,000 people walking though the place on a Sunday. No one knows how many buy, who is selling, what they are selling nor what they are buying. In Illinois, for example, many fireworks are against the law yet at flea markets they are sold like candy. Swithblade knives too are not supposed to be sold as well as guns, yet there they are. There is food, clothing, toys, cars, auto parts, lamps, chairs, tables, jewlery, coins, stamps and on and on and no one pays taxes of any kind. All year long too. So this is not small time. As to coin dealers at these shows just making some additional money. One dealer tells me he only does coin shows and is in the 6 figures per month in sales. Quote:
I've noticed a lot more people looking to sell coins to the dealers in the last few shows that I have attended in Massachusetts. Also, when I ask to see a specific coin, the dealers immediately take 5-10% off of the listed price before I even express an interest in buying it. This has happened on at least a dozen occasions. Most dealers at coin shows jack up all prices by about that amount or more. Remember a coin show in a way is a flea market for coins. You are expected to haggle prices and most all customers know that and do just that. So most dealers raise their prices to accommodate this situation. It's sort of like buying a house or car. They state xxxxx and you say I'll only pay xxxx. So then they drop the price a little and you still say xxxx. Finally you pay what they wanted originally but tried for as much as possible. One dealer was telling me he raises all his prices by at least 20% and always offers customers a 10 to 15% discount. If they still don't buy, he drops it to what he wanted in the first place. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
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Sounds like you're advocating owning coins as a way to beat taxes. Right now anyway, the govt. doesn't tax the value of any coins you own. It's only when you sell that you have a taxable event. Wouldnt this apply to just about anything you own, not just coins? Except for property, what else gets taxed just because you own it? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2661 Posts |
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Capital gains are reported on Schedule D of your U.S. federal tax return. I'm sure all you sellers are doing this. Why I certainly am! And I claimed all my catalogue and Internet orders I made in 2008 on my state taxes also so that I could give them another 6.5% "use tax" to waste.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1840 Posts |
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Most dealers at coin shows jack up all prices by about that amount or more. Yes, I understand this. My point was that they aren't even waiting for the buyer to start negotiations before they lower the price. [quote]One dealer was telling me he raises all his prices by at least 20% and always offers customers a 10 to 15% discount.quote] He's either lying or a poor businessman. I'm betting the mark up begins at around 100%. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts |
You pay a tax to own a car, although they call it a lisencing fee.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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You pay a tax to own a car, although they call it a lisencing fee.
And in most places in Illinois there are also city stickers that you pay for on your cars. I purchased a car not long ago in another county from where I lived. I got a notice in the mail from my county to also pay sales taxes in this county since the car is now in this county. As to sales taxes on coins. If I get a coin, quarter, in change and sell it for $1, then a few years later rebuy that same coin for $5 and then again sell it for $10. So now I really should pay sales taxes when buying or selling the same coin? That means paying a sales tax 3 times on the same coin? Did you all know that in Chicago the sales taxes are now 10.25%? So naturally everyone is so happy to pay taxes to help support out politicians. |
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Replies: 28 / Views: 2,444 |
Posted 04/19/2009 1:31 pm
