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Why I Will Never Collect Silver:

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paul's Avatar
United States
213 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2010  5:10 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add paul to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article496.chtml

It is the dealers fault that silver coin prices are so high. They drove the prices up! Why would I pay them the premium that they created through their greed? MS morgans should be very cheap.

Long live the nickel!
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16677 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2010  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm partial to old copper myself, Colonials & Large Cents although I do have some scarce silver but have not added any for some time now.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2010  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would argue that the US Mint has melted far more silver coins than the dealers ever had a chance to do. The 1918 Pittman Act alone caused the melting of over 270 million Morgan dollars in addition to the circulating silver that was removed in the 1960s when the switch to clad coinage was made and the melting of silver coins was banned. All of the silver coins that passed through the Treasury were removed while simultaneously being replaced with clad. Simply put, the Treasury had the ability to filter the vast majority of the circulating coinage so they had the ability to melt far more than anyone else through economies of scale. Also, dramatic increase in silver prices in 1979-80 was not caused by dealer driving the price up, that was solely the fault of the Hunt Brothers attempting to illegally corner the silver commodities market
Pillar of the Community
United States
505 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2010  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Frazzle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dealers arent driving the price up,its the silver speculators along with collectors who are competing for the coins....Supply and demand

Also,what was the point you were trying to make with the article?
Edited by Frazzle
01/08/2010 6:09 pm
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turtleoverhead's Avatar
Australia
585 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2010  6:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add turtleoverhead to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why-I-Will-Never-Collect-Silver:Dealers arent driving the price up,its the silver speculators along with collectors who are competing for the coins....Supply and demand

Also,what was the point you were trying to make with the article?

Edited by turtleoverhead
01/08/2010 6:14 pm
Valued Member
Pinenut's Avatar
United States
462 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2010  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pinenut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to say that if anything, that article made me more excited to collect sets of silver. I've just started a Washington album up and I am stoked. Now instead of filling in mediocre holes from 1951 on, you stand a real shot of, ten or twenty years from now, someone figuring out just how many 1963-Ds there are. And being shocked by the smallness of the number.

It seems like a great opportunity to take a chance and get some late model silver for cheap.

Also, with the online auction houses and forums like this (especially 25000 rolls of nickels), there is a real chance of getting some accurate census information on the coins.

Get those Freakanomics guys on the case.

Troy

Valued Member
United States
365 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2010  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeriousCERES to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First off, thank you for posting the article! I enjoyed reading it, because I think it's full of interesting problems and questions.

On the one hand, it sounds a bit like all-too-familiar griping. So the old guys reminisce about how they made a good living melting millions of dollars' worth of silver back in the old days, and yet how bad they feel what they did was for collecting--? Might this not just be another case of the "oh, collecting's not what it used to be," dressed up in an interesting anecdote from numismatic history?

What does the article imply about the worth of CN coins? Are they so worthless to collect as coins, next to silver ones?

Yes many silver coins were melted, fine. If they were still on the market, maybe everything we collect would be cheaper and it'd be easier to get complete date sets.

There are points in the article--though ten years old now--that still seem very timely: how much can we rely on current notions of rarity and scarcity for the types that were massively melted? How can we be sure of the value of any of the silver roosies, for instance, if upwards of 75% of the mintages printed in the catalogs, the graysheets, etc., may have been melted for any given date? Is anyone DOING the kind of research the author of this article calls for, or are today's keys the same ones as before The Great Melt, because no one actually has a clue and getting one is just too complicated, given the alternative of keeping your head down and sticking to what works?

Such questions validate Paul's point in posting the link: perhaps he's not going to collect silver coins, because he questions the validity of the rankings of value underpinning the entire project. I don't know anything about how dealers drove stuff up, I'll let him field that one... ;)

Anyway, interesting to think about, before going back to making dinner--

SCS
Edited by SeriousCERES
01/08/2010 7:07 pm
Valued Member
Figman's Avatar
United States
245 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2010  7:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Figman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"MS morgans should be very cheap"

MS morgans are cheap! Silver is still cheap too, wait until it doubles.

Valued Member
United States
365 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2010  7:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeriousCERES to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh-- one last thought--sorry!

If in fact everything is scarcer than the book values say, the ones who've been amassing rolls and bullion stand to gain the most, since what you took as common--and paid for as common--might turn out to be rare. It's the folks who've been amassing slabbed, top-pop keys who might watch their investment value turn on its head.

SCS
Valued Member
paul's Avatar
United States
213 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2010  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the comments.
Anyway, the point I was making about price was with created rarity. A certain date might not have been rare in the 60s, but is now considered rare due to melting, thus driving up the price.
As I typed the above sentence I realized that I have no basis for the "Created Scarcity" theory. I guess it is just conjecture. Any ideas on the validity of it?
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2010  11:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm partial to old copper myself, Colonials & Large Cents

And those were subject to reclamation too. When the Flying Eagle cent was first issued, there was a big drive for people to turn in all their large cents for the smaller CuNi coins. Probably a lot of beautiful coins were destroyed--we'll never know.
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Archraz's Avatar
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2010  01:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just wonder what this melting did to the populations of foreign silver coins in the US. How many of those bags were full of foreign coins? I know many dealers who don't know and don't want to know how to read Chinese and other Asian languages. So when they buy a collection, the copper and Nickel Asian coins go in the 25 cent box and the silver goes in the junk silver (I have gotten some awesome Meiji Japanese yen this way). Also, if silver was going through the roof here, just what was happening elsewhere? In Europe were tons of coins melted? In Canada, where they continued to issue silver in large quantities through 1967, were coins being melted? I think that it also is being forgotten just how many US coins are not in the States. Heck, I have a friend in France who has 3/4 of a set of Morgans in BU, and there were tons of nice silver Roosevelts and Mercs being sold by dealers in Spain when I was there last summer. So I think that there are some global questions to be asked regarding this issue.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2010  10:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure about why the problem with the cost of Silver Coins. Obviously the US Mint doesn't make them anymore but China is helping out there. Soon enough you'll be able to get any Silver coin from them for some really cheap prices. I'm waiting for them to start making the 1913 Liberty Head Nickels so I can finish my set.
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Archraz's Avatar
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2010  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
just carl- Oh, I'm sure that they do make the 1913 Liberty head nickel. In fact, I bet you can even find one with the diameter of a silver dollar or one with the obverse of the LHN and the reverse of a Sun Yat Sen Yuan. heheheheh
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