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 Replies: 49 / Views: 5,280 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
I guess 3 A is off the table.....just a quick check.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
Well a better one of the neck would help. I think I see something but it could be the lighting.
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Valued Member
 United States
151 Posts |
I think I still need to see some doubleng on the 1 for it to be 3 or 3A so I don't think it's that. Here are a couple more pics of the neck. I'm not sure they're better but you can see different things.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1551 Posts |
Nope no (N) clash that I can see
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Valued Member
United States
151 Posts |
Thanks for the help. So, what next? Just call it probably a VAM 6 with a die clash and leave it at that or is it worth pursuing further? |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
If the coin is identifiable as vam-6, then it is vam-6. The die is the die, whether there is clashing or not.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5615 Posts |
I believe the statement about 1st checking the date, is an important 1st step, the pictures I see, this coin has a near date. In this " VAM" world by following the neck point straight down to the denticles, from there a normal date would 1st begin at 2 and one half denticles from the straight down from the neck point, again, in this case the 1st digit(1) is less than the 2 and a half denticles away, meaning this is a near date Morgan, anything further than 2and a half would be a far date, just thought I could help. Actually the 1st step of checking the date is a very good place to start.... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Unfortunately, since the time of date placement, where one would look at the date and its a "no brainer" it has changed over time, the normal date placement is aproximently 2.2 denticles to around 2.8 variance in general...
there are ,many dates listed on VW that have not been updated, to the extent were an obvious far date was listed as normal... in this case its within the normal date placement...near date would be a no brainer in the 2.0 area between the 2nd and 3rd dentil, on the edge of the 2nd denticle would be concidered a very near date...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5615 Posts |
While I respect and enjoy being "updated" in and on this topic, you state that things have changed, you also state that" the normal date placement is aproximently 2.2 denticles to around 2.8 variance in general..."
This coins date is clearly 2 denticles from the truncation of the neck point,( area to begin counting to determine the date placement ) might be just slightly less, so I really do not understand your statement about"
near date would be a no brainer in the 2.0 area between the 2nd and 3rd dentil, on the edge of the 2nd denticle would be concidered a very near date..."
I simply am not sure about what you are talking about, being you have contradicted yourself in your own statements.
I also would add that things a person writes, and seen by someone else could take on a completely different meaning, I hope your post is NOT anything but being informative, thanks.....PS, When did the date placement change from 2 and one half?
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Date placement is another aspect of vamming that could stand some cleaning up. I have seen many disagreements concerning whether a coin has a normal or near date, a normal or far date, etc, etc. I would welcome a revised chart to eliminate the gray area of 'normal'. A new chart to make black and white just what the placement is. Consider a chart that is defined at points on the denticles rather than the perceptive chart that we now use:  |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
By the way, the truncation of the neck point is also a matter of perception to some folks I believe. Is it an imaginary line straight down to the denticles from the middle of the two edges that come together at the point, or is it the trajectory continuing from one of those edges? I know what the correct answer is, but some folks seem to have a different take on this, which 'does' throw off the end point in the denticles.
Secondly, (with respect to different hubs), does this end point in the denticles always end up at the same point 'between' the denticles or does it sometimes land 'on' a denticle? Should then, the truncation be considered a constant in denticle distance measurements?
I just see too many variables possible for conclusive ascertainment on all coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
date placement, you are correct in your understandings, to clarify my previous comments, there are times when the variance of the normal placement of 2.5..(off the top of my head) approx 2.2 left and 2.8 right are considered within the normal variance. There are times when we will find plate photo's where one VAM might be labeled near date and another posted as left of normal, but NOT listed as near date,... examples within the 1886 date here,,,vam 1C not listed as near date  VAM 13 and 22 are listed as near dates   notice they are quite similar... now here are some examples for far dates....notice this VAM 16 is not listed as far date  VAM 9 is  we all use the VW to track down our coins or help other's to pin point them, however there are times such as these, when the call could go either way, as in this case the coin in this thread:if it was listed as near, even if I think its normal I can't debate it with the listing...you say tomato I say tamaatoe, there are many such plate photo's where the guidlines hang on the edge, in the end date placement is the first place to start its definately not the definitive last step. I make no claims of mastery but would like to show there are discrepancies with the info we use to attribute, ending in lost time which is why its a great place to talk about these things! |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Good examples Gene....I stole this one from you:  Perceptions are like opinions, everyone has one. Have you guys seen this 'Axe' commercial on TV about cleaning sports balls? Without looking at the screen, all I heard was these two women talking about balls, and my perception of this commercial was different than the next time I actually 'saw' the commercial. (But not much). Edited by zeewool
09/11/2010 6:39 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Oh, those mint marks are even worse than the dates.....I wouldn't even have a suggestion for that mess other than to use the same reference as used for die rotation, but probably by now he has figured something out. (Russ is a pretty sharp guy). I don't really like it that he has maintained such a low profile lately around here though.
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Replies: 49 / Views: 5,280 |
First Page
Posted 08/30/2010 01:13 am
This might be a good time to remind us of Russ's work on Mint mark placement which is also at times misleading, resulting in more wild goose chases in the wrong direction..
