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The High Price Of Silver Good Or Bad For Collectors?

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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 02/23/2011  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I was at a coin/bullion dealer recently and he had at least 1000 silver proofs that he was breaking to melt. That was before silver hit $30. I have seen and heard of many others doing this since then.


Ever try to retail a common silver proof set except at Christmas?

Not only are they worth more as scrap, the refinery isn't going to waste your time checking every coin for problem/varieties, and he'll take all you've got when you decide to sell them.
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RealPeso's Avatar
United States
426 Posts
 Posted 02/23/2011  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RealPeso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Love it and hate it!

Love it because my existing collection increases in value, hate it because it hinders my ability to complete my sets.
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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 02/23/2011  9:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it's good, there are other super interesting coins with other alloys that can be concentrated on. I think it will slow down a serious collector but it's not going to discourage anyone who is serious. I mean you might have to wait twice as long to get some pieces, but still acquire them eventually.
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DNA's Avatar
United States
2734 Posts
 Posted 02/23/2011  10:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DNA to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
biggfredd: Not only are they worth more as scrap, the refinery isn't
going to waste your time checking every coin for problem/varieties,
and he'll take all you've got when you decide to sell them.

I've been buying Silver Proof coins as bullion for years. The above is one reason why.
The refiners know the Proof coins are full weight with no circulation wear, unlike junk silver.

The other reason why is that common Proof coins might not even cost you any more than junk silver.
At one show a few years ago, I bought ten silver State Quarter 5-coin lenses for $125.
That was 10x face, exactly what junk silver was going for at the time.
Everybody else at the show was walking right past these never-circulated full-weight
Silver Proof Quarters @10x to buy worn circulated junk silver @10x.

Quote:
Ugly: ...there are other super-interesting coins
(made of) other alloys that can be concentrated on.

Yeah. You can collect older One-Cent coins (which are being hoarded
for their copper content) or US Nickels (which some are hoarding for
their Cu-Ni content and presumed change of composition in the near future).

Just can't get away from that "metal value" thing...
Edited by DNA
02/23/2011 10:30 pm
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187446 Posts
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SDcoinguy's Avatar
United States
2424 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2011  11:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SDcoinguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DNA,

i started a franklin dansco last year, about half way through and am loving the hunt for raw gem coins for the set. now they seem to be right at melt for some quality MS64 examples
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2011  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is an interesting or scarry thought on the subject. IF and when this Silver, Gold, Copper price madness is over, how many valuable coins will be left. Think of all the Walking Liberty half dollars being melted down for Silver alone. All books and/or documents about mintage quantities are becoming a real nothing for facts only good for what the Mint produced. It has always been a problem with all the normal, everyday distruction of coinage but now with this massive increase in melting down coins, what will be left? How can anyone really value a ooin based on how many are in existance? Just how rare would a coin REALLY be if only a few hundred thousand were made and almost all now melted down? And we should try to remember that most that are melting down these coins could care less of a numismatic value. Most do not care nor even suspect they could be melting a coin that is worth 100 times what the metal value is.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2011  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How can anyone really value a ooin based on how many are in existance?

Same way they always have, based on how frequently they are encountered. Mintages have NEVER meant anything due to meltings, errors in counting, losses, and coins dated one thing but counted with the coins of another year. The only way coins can be judged as common or rare and valued is by how often they are seen.
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upstate's Avatar
United States
3278 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2011  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add upstate to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You would have to say high silver values is good for collectors just because collections are worth more
and coins are rarer due to melting; but it sure doesn't feel like it.
It just seems like all these dates, mint marks and grades that we cherish and painstakingly brought together
are now just lumped together at "junk silver"
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mysilveryears's Avatar
United States
1887 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2011  7:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mysilveryears to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can see no beneficial effect at all from this current phase of melt-madness.
That giant sucking sound you hear as vast quantities of common and semi-common silver coins disappear down the chutes into the furnaces is actually the choking gasp of a vital hobby in its death throes.
Wherever there is a diminished supply of inexpensive items for beginners to enjoy, there are fewer beginners, thus less potential for matured hobbyists of the future. This will drag down the value of better coins by shrinking the future buying pool.
I'm wagering that very few on this forum plunged into the coin hobby green with a five figure bank account and an instant taste for bust halves, or whatever. No, you started with pocket change or grandpa's bureau drawer contents or the leftover tokens of a foreign trip made by some relative who was kind enough to donate to your cause.
It is of small comfort to imagine that sooner or later the values pendulum is very likely to swing the other way just as it did after the big silver 'hunt' of thirty years ago. Times are tougher now, meaning that hoards saved through the previous meltdown are now being shed. The mixed metal tokens and overmarketed special issues the gov't provides are not the substance of a serious lifetime hobby. It seems the cosmic forces are aligned against the simple hobby of common silver coin collecting, and there is little that can be done to halt the ongoing destruction.
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bryan1234's Avatar
United States
463 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2011  7:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bryan1234 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you bought silver when it was lower, now is the perfect time to add to your collection through selling any bullion to buy some nice coins. I wish I started buying years ago but I only started at the 16-18 an oz time and even in that time I was able to get some coins that I normally wouldn't be able to purchase by selling most of my junk to get some collectible coins
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mysilveryears's Avatar
United States
1887 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2011  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mysilveryears to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So you, like many, started with 'junk' to get to 'collectible'.
Yet every week with silver UP, there is less and less 'junk' to lure in the enthusiastic beginner.
Now when l'il Tommy asks Grandpa if he has any old silver dimes or quarters lying around, the old man will confess, 'Well, yes, I had some two weeks ago if you'da asked, but I just sold 'em to the nice fellas at the hotel who offered enough to pay your tuition.'
True story? Or allegory?
I know I am biased in my opinions on this topic.
Because I come from a time when you could pull a complete Mercury dime collection out of circulation. In a mere two months of looking through change dishes in the school cafeteria. True story. None of us could afford the quarters and halves.
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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2011  12:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
when this Silver, Gold, Copper price madness is over, how many valuable coins will be left. ... And we should try to remember that most that are melting down these coins could care less of a numismatic value. Most do not care nor even suspect they could be melting a coin that is worth 100 times what the metal value is.


While it's true that refiners simply melt down what comes in the door, most of what they get has passed through multiple hands that are likely to have pulled any real rarities. I'm sure there is plenty of stuff now getting melted because it was saved from the refineries in 1980, only to watch its value fall back to very little when silver dropped. Dealers and others thought they were saving coins for collectors only to find those collectors never materialized!

Hundreds of millions of silver dollars were melted in the early 1900s, yet there were still millions in the treasury vaults until the 1970s. Millions more were melted in 1979-80, and if they melted every 1881s dollar (I think that's the date) in ms64 or lower, there would still be over 50 bags of them, for nowhere near that many dollar collectors.
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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2011  12:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
mysilveryears-

In 40+ years of selling coins, I have seen maybe one collector in 100 start with anything but cents. Silver coins have carried a premium most of that time, yet people still collect Mercury dimes, despite the great melt of 1980.

Heck, people still collect Jeffersons, and they've been melting warnix since the 60s!
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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2011  01:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I can see no beneficial effect at all from this current phase of melt-madness.


It gives collectors a chance to prune some duplication and use the money to get something worthwhile.

Take a typical Washington collector. He has a set missing the 32d+s, and a couple rolls of duplicate silver. At $4 silver, he could get enough to buy one low grade quarter. Today, those two rolls are worth $400+, enough for nice specimens of both, plus dinner out.

With higher prices making scarcer issues no more valuable than commons, he can trade in common stuff for better ones, for only a slight fee for taking the dealer's time. This could have cost 3-1 or 5-1 before, if the dealer even had scarcer issues to trade for.
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