1889 P Morgan Dollar High 9 VAM It!

Dave, very understood, I would again ask for pictures to show clearer what I believe I see........Also are you saying in your first picture, with the drawn in blue line and red circle, that the red circle, along her neck, does, or does not show a partial letter transfer?

I don't_think it does. I've seen rather rounded-looking "n" clashes, and a couple where one could see a letter without the wing clash. Keep in mind, it wasn't always fresh dies which clashed. Wear can have a bearing on how "strong" a clash is - in fact, I think it plays a more important role in the grand scheme of things than we give it credit for. So could post-clash polishing; a less-conscientious Mint employee could conceivably polish away just the wing clash and miss the "n" entirely. A well-worn "n" will have a rounder appearance than a fresh one. So, although if you force me to choose I will say this coin isn't clashed, I won't say that's not an "n" with absolute certainty. The reverse, I'm certain of.

Morgan clashing bothers me. By design, the Morgan & Orr press isn't capable of it. One must introduce the human factor - improper setup - before it can happen at all. It's one of the reasons why I'm so set on learning the incidentals - the "behind the scenes" happenings - of the Morgan minting process.

Au contraire Pierre..... "by design" the press was capable of totally obliterating both dies..... By "set up" I can only imagine that you refer to mechanical set up of die spacing, pressure adjustment, etc that would produce the desired effect of a properly brought up design on the coin rather than improper set up that would serve the same result as a self destruct button.

"Human error", as you put it, is the cause of clashing..... consider that the feed tube only held 100 planchets, while the press struck 90 planchets per minute..... consider now what was the main purpose of the press operator?

There is a foot pedal (clutch) that disengages the the main flywheel from the gears that drive the toggle joint and the lower die mechanism.... both hands keeping the feed tube from emptying, and right foot on the clutch, (in the common event that both hands were not enough).



I disagree... the polishing plate was designed to a specific convex dimension.... spot grinding (polishing on specific locations) would serve only to degrade the die to improper radius and leaving the die unserviceable... features would be on par with those of CBH.

(Other than that, I agree with you Dave)...

Lower light from a few different angles...

http://www.coincommunity.info/coin/...dollar-1.jpg
http://www.coincommunity.info/coin/...dollar-2.jpg

Neck with no glare...

While all of your images are incredibly good bobby, these most recent ones are my favorites..... The die fields look worn to me, and in need of polishing, and while there may or may not be minor clashing present, I don't see any resemblance to letter transfer that would put it into the realm of 7A..... but then, vamming is way over my head, and I will never understand or see the big picture (if there even is one).

I am minded especially of the (usually north-south) polishing lines to be found in the fields of Morgans of all dates, which are heaviest when adjacent to devices. This is indicative of handwork, understanding that a casual polisher would inevitably exert more pressure at a "dropoff." That supports my thinking only to the extent that it's (to me) conclusive proof that many dies received handwork. We won't even talk about 1921's.

It is an admittedly huge leap between that practice, and hand-removal of clash marks to the extent that a wing clash can go while a letter transfer remains. However, I could swear I've seen the latter somewhere, and if there remains a 1/1000 chance that an exception exists, I can't say conclusively that it's not possible.

Mike, I am sure that you know that due to the convex shape of the dies, clashing can only occur in certain field areas on a die (or a coin)..

I do not remember what coin it was (maybe a nickel or a quarter, it might have even been a foreign coin), but I laid this smaller coin (centered perfectly) on top of the Morgan, and the rim of the smaller coin exactly outlined what I call the "clash ring"..... despite rotation, the clash ring is the only area in which a clash can occur...... if the clash ring covers a device, the possibility of a clash is non existent.... In the case of a Morgan, the area below BUS above Anna's head is outside the clash ring, so is an impossibility as far as a clash goes...... The area behind her cap covers a lot of ground, but once again, if what you see is higher than any point above the M in UNUM, this could not be a clash as the clash ring covers the cap itself.

Normally, I would take just about anything you say as indisputable fact Pal, but I would respectfully have to see that one to believe it.... one major device clashing into the deepest portion of another major device is ridiculous..... Now that I think about it while I am typing this, I doubt that I would believe it even if I did see it.... neither die would have survived.... I think that you are just messin' with me....(April 1st is tomorrow, not today).