Abandoning ICCS In Favour Of CCCS And PCGS

It's all about the money, 1cent, send me your coins and, I'll grade them for you for....lets say... $5.00 apiece.. and I'll probably do as good as the TPG's

Even those of us who have been attempting to grade our own coins for 30 plus years ?

Years don't matter, some people are accurate, some are not. Some just BS knowing they are doing it, some are just blatantly so far off base they never had a clue and never will. I'm not a junior collector, but I won't pretend I'm perfect. No one is, not even the pros. The percentage of times they are correct is where they make their bread and butter. This TPG issue just wasn't a problem in the 70's, If you and I disagreed but still wanted to a make a deal, we'd go ask Fred and Ralph what they thought too and gather up some more data points. Between us we'd end up with something approaching a reasonable opinion and cash would change hands.

Again; if you are selling me your coin, I'll listen with interest to your opinion on it and then make up my own mind. You should all do the same, whether it was Fred or PCGS. Can't tell you how many times someone has come in trailing a slabbed Canadian nickel from an American TPG marked with an MS grade when it was obviously a far lesser coin. This doesn't happen as much in the last few years but it used to be constant and drove me nuts.

You have to be able to see the certifate number in the picture to start with the make sure the seller is sending the same coin. I have had 7 of the last 10 "ICCS certified" coins bought on ebay be different then the one pictured in the sale... all have had issues when I got them either with colour or marks that make it hard to believe that any TPG would have graded what they did. Bought a 1937 MS64 nickel... big deep marks on the eyebrow and cheek.. 3 or 4 other hit marks on the rest of the bust... fields front and back nice..but overall not a 64 in my mind or in the mind of the 2 others I had look at it. I have told the seller I want to return is as his pictures were clear of any marks... and hid the cert. number. We'll see if he takes it back. I am pretty much done trusting any ICCS graded coins on ebay unless they have great pictures and the seller is someone I have dealt with in the past... always the best way anyway I guess. I don't think there is any fool proof method to protect other then Ugly's way... make yourself knowledgeable and don't blindly trust anyone else's opinion of a grade.

For a start CCCS holders are not "Vacuum sealed" they are however, both watertight and therefore, airtight-PCGS is not by design. CCCS and NGC use museum-grade plastics and NGC has tested it's holder with the Smithsonian institute's coin collection-PCGS has not.
CCCS has tested the holder for those properties respective of being waterproof/moisture proof and airtight and is by design.
The ANA in the U.S. uses NGC not PCGS.
Counterfeit coins have been around as long as coins have and have appeared in all holders regardless of what security device is implemented. Respective of ICCS and those "Security devices...see previous statement.

Counterfeits are an unfortunate part of the hobby and collectors would be wise to avail themselves of seminars that are being taught by many esteemed individuals to assist them in helping to mitigate this.

As far as which company does the best in grading-it's a wash. Those already mentioned all have their strengths and weaknesses.

The point of TPG services is to help the 95% of coin collectors that can't grade properly. As for the 5% who really can grade properly they're always going to be differing opinions on just how to split that hair...

Jerry

I don't see that. If I'm only going to sell Canadian coins in Canada today than maybe there is some merit to your comment that PCGS and ICCS are prime. If I'm selling on a global stage all TPG's are active, NGC the most (see E-Bay counts). I've bought and traded all holders some the finest known in NGC, CCCS, PCGS, and some in ICCS. I here all kinds of comments like this...the coins speak for themselves and are seen as such by those in the know regardless of the holder. I've seen all sorts of mis-grading in every holder and was even thinking of starting a collection on them. However, TPG is necessary for the hobby as reverting back to pre-TPG would be a mistake to the newbies out there who simply can't grade or identify counterfeits.

As for the strengths they ( TPG) offer-that depends on your focus. If you collect copper and want to protect your "Red" cent, Then it follows that NGC or CCCS with tested airtight/moisture resistant holders should be used. If you collect or sell internationally than PCGS and NGC are your focus.

To simply say that PCGS and ICCS is the "go" in Canada, that may be true but that's too insular for trading into that "international" market. After all "E-bay"/Icollector are international.

I do find it humorous that there are coin dealers in the U.S. for example (and I'm not picking on the U.S. or its dealers perse) that have gone through the trouble of grading ,say, an Australian coin and putting it in a PCGS holder only to say they only sell to the U.S. and have numerous inquiries from all over the world and no sale. It's backward thinking and in time will be re-adjusted.

RE Jerry:



And UGLY:


I totally agree with sentiment expressed by Jerry.

It's extremely frustrating to see obvious errors in assignment of grade in a "certified" slab or pouch that any amateur grader would catch.

This just shows that these "professionals" are not putting proper care and attention into DOING THEIR JOB.

Re UGLY pointing out that no one is perfect, and that the "pros are correct a high percentage of the time" -- REALLY ?

If I'm paying for a professional to, or buying something a professional company has "certified" to be of a certain quality and value -- I WANT / EXPECT THAT the item will be correctly assigned grade or value.

There are some things, when being "correct a high percentage of the time", JUST DOESN'T CUT IT.

Scotts Canadian Coins

I'm not sure how much "fun" it is when someone is on the losing end of the grading deal from a low res picture. Many collectors buy coins for investment, gifts, etcc and are not expert graders so they like to have an idea of what they are buying. I think grading services are good for the industry and although they may remove some "fun" of rolling the dice, tell that to a guy that just bought an MS64 48 from an "optimistic" dealer only to find out two years down the road every other dealer and a grading service thinks its a 62. Even as an experience coin collector, it's one thing when you see the coin in person and make a judgement call, it's another when you're buying it from a picture online. As "online" becomes the predominant way of buying and selling coins, so will the graded coins. Sure there have been differences between the various services, but as more coins get graded, those gaps are narrowing and better consistency between services will be achieved. Appearance will always be an issue.