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 Replies: 44 / Views: 9,546 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
As a new collector of Canadian key coins, after doing much research, I must admit that not only will I not submit any of my coins to ICCS, but I will be freeing all my recently purchased high end coins from their current ICCS holders and will send them elsewhere. What I find most distressing about ICCS is the lack of safety. With high quality forgeries flooding in from Asia and the flood about to turn into a tsunami, ICCS holders are clearly a FAIL. I just made a deal for a somewhat questionable-looking ICCS certified 1906 25c small crown that I agreed to buy only under the condition that it is cut out of its ICCS holder and re-certified in a CCCS hard slab. And that's not even taking into account issues such as ICCS holder cracking, recent dubious grading, inconsistent grading, etc. Will it "lose value" by doing so? I highly doubt it. There may be huge inertia and resistance to change, from Canadian coin dealers loaded with ICCS graded stock - that ebay is also loaded with. The argument always made is that ICCS graded coins sell for a higher premium. I totally disagree, as I've been buying key ICCS graded coins at 35-50% off trends on ebay without much difficulty, although a few dealers do resist. Dealers will LIST ICCS coins at a higher price than equivalent graded PCGS or NGC, but they rarely sell for more. The biggest issue on ebay is poor pictures, and for some reason, PCGS and NGC slabbed coins tend to have poorer pictures than their ICCS counterparts. I believe ultimately, the quality of the picture makes a huge difference in the final sale price. So I've come to the conclusion that my > $1000 coins will go to PCGS, my high end Canadian errors will go to CCCS for hard slabbing, and the rest of the lower end stuff will go into CCCS soft holders. Until ICCS completely revamps their holders and introduces hard holders, a website, certification #, etc...they're not worth a second look. When I buy a $2000 ICCS coin, I can't sleep at night, not knowing if there's a $1 Chinese fake sitting in its holder. And in this day and age, that's simply unacceptable. We all need to slap ICCS so they wake up to current reality and shape up. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
902 Posts |
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Valued Member
Canada
51 Posts |
I thought I just read in CCN that ICCS would be introducing slabs very soon? (I might be mistaken)
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
10743 Posts |
I think they better introduce a web site, and get up with the rest of the TPG's |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
902 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
what about NGC? They are a great company too
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1442 Posts |
I think NGC and ANACS are good options too, although PCGS is probably best for resale value.
Canadians also seem to prefer PCGS over NGC and ANACS....I've gotten some incredible deals on ANACS slabbed coins..
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9870 Posts |
danlos9551 No Chinese fakes have been found in ICCS holders,a VERY large number are in PCGS holders,they even have the correct cert#'s
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Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
Quote:
DBM said:
No Chinese fakes have been found in ICCS holders You are incorrect Sir. Several examples have been found in ICCS holders, some of them even certified by ICCS directly (i.e., no tampering or 'switch' was made). My sentiments echo those of danlos9551, I especially like the CCCS hard slab, the concept of a vacuum-sealed holder is reassuring to a red 1-cent collector. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
I concur with you, danlos9551. I made the same decision last year for my gem business strike nickel dollars and sent them to PCGS (these are grade rarities). However, I do digress a bit, because I also enjoy hunting through BU rolls, and I still send the picked cherries to ICCS, because I want to sell them on ebay - nothing more (to generate coin funds so that my wife does not lynch me when I spend $1000+ on a coin). My personal grading standards probably lie in-between ICCS and CCCS, so folks are generally pleased with coins I sell. That said, good pictures and standing behind the coin (i.e., accepting returns) is about the best I can do with coins in ICCS holders... but you are right to do that with your collection. When the ICCS bubble bursts, it is going to be ugly in Canadian numismatics... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9870 Posts |
SPP I was aware that Lebanese and other non-Chinese fakes have been slabbed by ICCS.Didn't know that Chinese had been slabbed.What coins and when?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
I'm not abandoning anybody. Since I don't have anything in TPG packages I don't have to play the what if game. When it comes time to sell something I am capable of choosing the correct venue for that coin to be graded. I keep good coins in airtights that I seal in an argon chamber out in the shop (argon tank off my welder) because none of these hard or soft slabs are something I trust to preserve a coin. When it's time to sell they can go to the correct place that will help me get the best return and I don't have to make up my mind until that exact moment. Why narrow and close competition? At the sell stage it's all about me. If ICCS coins tank, then I'll move on. If PCGS/ANACS/NGC etc finally establish a Canadian resource then the more the merrier, consumers benefit by choice and competition. It's OK to discuss the merits of this or that TPG for their service delivery and standards, but the concept of the mob with burning torches at the gates is beyond me. For those of you who expect more from ICCS write them and tell them directly, complaining on the forum will get us all less than nothing. I consistently provide concise, unemotional feedback when I feel it is warranted to any person or entity I purchase a good or service from. Please do the same and work at getting real change. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
This is the Internet. Extreme and even libelous rants are de rigeur. :)
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
DBM, that information is something that is best shown, and discussed, over a beer at a coin show.... I won't lay out specifics here, I just wanted to reiterate that danlos9551's concerns, are valid.
I think Ugly said it best, because as a coin collector, you have the choice to do whatever you think is best with your coins. Being airtight was not a great concern for my nickel dollars, since nickel tends to resist oxidation so much better than copper or silver - and PCGS seemed like the right choice for me. That said, I would trust a CCCS hard slab to preserve a coin. They are vacuum-sealed and air-tight. Louis of CCCS, will often throw a hard slab into tank of water, to illustrate that point. Being a collector of Canadian small cents in red mintstate, that is something that definitely appeals to me. It is a shame that CCCS is not at every coin show, promoting itself as a viable alternative to ICCS.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
I got to tell you, on large cents, PCGS is the standard. They are tough on carbon spots and have the most rigor around the red designation. If you get a recently graded PCGS Vicky at 64 or 65 red, it's a gem to be sure. Not so with ICCS.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1051 Posts |
TPG's are becoming less and less necessary to me lately. When they make obvious grading and attribution errors more times than not, I come to wonder: what service exactly do they provide, and how much time do these "experts" spend grading these coins when they miss stuff that most amateurs would catch with ease?
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Replies: 44 / Views: 9,546 |
Posted 04/20/2011 4:57 pm
