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Coin Store Business Models

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Lobby's Avatar
United States
548 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  12:01 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Lobby to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Folks,

I suspect many of you are in the business. Can you explain how coin stores make money?

To a complete outsider, it sure looks like margins for those business are pretty tight.
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GO's Avatar
United States
6563 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  12:04 am  Show Profile   Check GO's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GO to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1. Buy new stock and supplies direct from vendors and resell at a slight markup.

2. Buy/trade coins from customers and estates and resell them at a slight markup.

The smarter your decisions are about pricing and fakes and such the more profitable your business can be.
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Lobby's Avatar
United States
548 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  12:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lobby to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's the "slight markup" that fascinates me.


I imagine coin store owners all being rich folks, able to view coin purchases as long term investment. Sure, they'll make money, but only in the long term.

But then I think about the working capital to keep those coins for that long....
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GO's Avatar
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 Posted 09/30/2011  12:11 am  Show Profile   Check GO's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GO to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I work for a music store and we buy in used gear. We tend to have a 30-40% markup and "try" to sell it for more when we can. Most items move within a month but sometimes 3-4.

Buy it smart and move it quick.

If anyone has ever gotten a low ball on their coins and were ticked off then they've never been in the business.
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CoinHunter53562's Avatar
United States
2049 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter53562 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most coin stores in this area do more than just collectible coins and supplies. There simply isn't enough margin and volume on these specific items to stay in business. So ALL of them in this area do scrap gold and jewelry as well as bullion. Also, every shop in town also has alternative channels like stamps, jewelry, one has sportscards, and so on.

GO is 100% right...buy it smart and move it quickly. There's no sense sitting on something, otherwise your money is tied up and not working for you. In our shop, we often sold items in bulk the same day it came in to keep the cash flow going.
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Lobby's Avatar
United States
548 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  12:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lobby to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The last two posts (Go, and CoinHunter) shed a lot of light for me.

I couldn't see how the stores could survive on 5% margins. But I can at 30% to 40%.



What about junk silver? Some of these stores take in a bunch of that stuff. Where and how do they move it?
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CoinHunter53562's Avatar
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 Posted 09/30/2011  12:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter53562 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Junk silver is either sold to their bigger bullion/investor customers but often sold to a larger outfit like APMEX depending on how much they have and how much the need for cash flow is. For the shops that do scrap gold for example, there is often a 2-week or longer holding period so that shop's cash is tied up for awhile. If they bring in alot of junk silver, they may move it to APMEX or Dillon Gage or another bigger distributor, albeit at a smaller margin than selling to the public. That frees up more cash to do more deals.
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CoinHunter53562's Avatar
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 Posted 09/30/2011  12:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter53562 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To GO's point about people complaining about getting a low ball offer on a coin, he is 100% right there. Coin collectors are a fickle bunch, and can be very specific in what they are looking for. You may have a coin in the grade they are looking for, but it may not look just the way they want it to. So often times a coin can either move the same day or sit there for months or longer. Or a dealer may have alot of a particuar coin. For example a better date like a 1955 Franklin in MS-63 or better, or a 1950-D Jefferson nickel. They may buy one of these at 50% of Greysheet bid because they are already overstocked on the item or there just isn't much demand for it from their customer base. It's not that they are trying to rip you off, but rather they are aware of what sells and what doesn't and realize their cash could be tied up in that coin for a long time. Eventually this may mean having to liquidate at at minimal profit down the road. Again, it's all about moving product and making your money work for you.
Edited by CoinHunter53562
09/30/2011 12:41 am
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  12:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1
I think most coin shops are owner operated.
that means there is no wages bill for a start.
2
Most shops are in an obscure part of town, Usually cheaper rent.
3
Most of the operaters are verry coin savvy and don't let emotion get in the way of making a correct purchase.
4
The junk silver would be a by product of buying large lots
and would have been figured into the purchase.
5
Most important of all we need MORE of them
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CoinHunter53562's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 09/30/2011  12:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter53562 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Out of the 6 shops here in town, not one is a single owner enterprise. Three of them are partnerships of sorts without any hired employees, but the other three are big enough to hire employees. In this bad economy, I don't think any shop would run as a solo enterprise. There's too much risk with both robberies, and then what happens if you have more than one customer in the store at the same time? You can't effectively watch 2+ employees with one person.

Also, the shops in this area are all in high traffic areas. Four are in suburbs of the main town and are on the main thoroughfare. The other two in the main city are on heavily trafficed areas.
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Saruma's Avatar
United States
968 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  02:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Saruma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To the comment about coin store owners being rich folks, maybe some are but I strongly suspect most are not. Small business owners are often not making any more money than the average office employee. The plus side of being in business for yourself is you are the boss, you have control over your own schedule, and you have the potential to make a lot of money if you know what you are doing and have luck on your side. The down side is you have a lot of expensive bills to cover each month (rent on your store, electricity, employee salaries, insurance, etc.) and you often are losing money for upwards of 3 years, or at least not making enough to pay yourself a reasonable salary (meaning you are living off savings. Small businesses also have a high failure rate, so you could blow your life savings on a failed enterprise. It is more common than you think.

I think being an online seller may be a better idea in this day and age. The fixed costs are much lower and your potential audience is much bigger. It is also easier to be a part time dealer if you don't have a brick and mortar store to run. I'm thinking of getting into selling coins online (starting on ebay). Since the costs are so low I can start out slowly with lower value coins and can to learn as I go. You can't do that with a real world store.
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rjkingston's Avatar
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642 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  02:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rjkingston to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Saruma, if you're thinking of getting in the business trying ebay out is actually a good lower risk way to learn some lessons of the trade without losing everything on a huge startup capital loan.

A few things to remember, selling on ebay isn't that cheap. Although cheaper than overhead on a brick and mortar store. You get your money now, and ebay bills you for the fees later. You have packaging, shipping, photography, listing, and the time it takes to do it all.

If you are barely making it on ebay, you won't make it in a brick and mortar.

Me? I've been eBaying coins as a hobby for about 10 years.

That reminds me, one more suggestion you have to decide whether you're in it for the hobby or the business. Usually the neatest coins to keep are also you're high profit items to move. To make it financially you'll have to let some of those big fish go. I haven't been able to do it myself yet, which is why it's my hobby and not my business
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  02:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
rjkingston
ebay can be fun.
as far as letting the big fish go, It really is a problem.
I normally keep them, even if they have a couple of scales missing
I somtimes have a bying spree on things I want but don't really need, I end up selling these and I normally loose.
Ah well thank the gods that I don't do it for a living or I would starve.
All in all it's good fun and I normally handball the post office jobs to the Missus
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CoinHunter53562's Avatar
United States
2049 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter53562 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep ebay keeps going up and up for fees. I sell on ebay (not coins) and now that they take a final value fee from shipping, it seems that the EBay/Paypal cut ends up being around 16-17%.

A few other things to consider with ebay. You are going to have buyers that are going to abuse the system. Some will claim the package was not received or was empty on arrival, while others will try to return items only because they have buyer's remorse but will do it under the guise of "item not as described". I sell some sporting goods on ebay (new and used) and have a very clear no return policy. Basically I would rather not sell the item then deal with an idiot who can't figure out what size item they need for a sporting good. I had a buyer once return a used football helmet because she expected it to look like brand new so that it could be autographed by an NFL player. The pictures, description and no return policy were clear as day but she sent it back without even notifying me first. Long story short, Paypal sided with her despite the description being 100% accurate and the "all sales are final" being stated twice in the auction listing. So my point is that while ebay is a good starting avenue, it's not without everyday hassles or having to deal with bad customers, just like you would in a retail store. The nice part is that it can be a good way to test the waters to see if you like buying and selling coins without the commitment of a lease for a space, merchant services, alarm system etc.
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Lobby's Avatar
United States
548 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lobby to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
16-17% commission on ebay. Wow.

I calculated 12% a few months ago, and that dissuaded me from selling too much stuff there.

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bobby131313's Avatar
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24149 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2011  11:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
it seems that the EBay/Paypal cut ends up being around 16-17%


You must be doing it seriously wrong.
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