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 Replies: 25 / Views: 4,673 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2237 Posts |
No grading company is perfect. Most collectors have seen coins with scratches, dents, gouges etc. that were given too high a grade. They were approved by an assembly line hurry up run it through didn't look close grader. Send the same coin to different companies and it may come back a different grade. Send the same coin to the same company several times and it may come back different grade.
Most graded Silver Eagles are common and not worth a great deal. I wouldn't be too concerned about the dig, strike through, or whatever it is in the field. But if you want a perfect one, you could sell/trade yours for one with no marks anywhere. I don't know PCGS policy about challenging the grade they gave a coin.
Edited by livingwater
09/13/2020 07:12 am
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Valued Member
United States
442 Posts |
Not so sure it's a ding. Possible lamination error?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
616 Posts |
This is why I no longer collect moderns. I can't afford to pursue perfection. I'd much rather have the Lydian half-stater in the OP's pic.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2237 Posts |
About 60% of my collection is ancient coins. And I prefer to hold them in hand, not in a plastic sealed case. I understand grading and slabbing collectable older and rare coins. But I'm not into doing this with common modern bullion. It is popular with a lot of folks though.
Edited by livingwater
09/13/2020 11:42 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Also remember the companies do not use much magnification as compared to what our phones and microscopes nowadays can do (correct em someone but I have heard they use from 3X to 7X). Something this small in their hurried environment would easily pass through. Besides that I had a lengthy conversation one day with a collector/dealer who is convinced that when monster boxes are submitted that the companies just skim 20% off of the top, slab them as MS70, and the rest are slabbed lower. He cited quite a few years of asking other large dealers to track their percentages of returned MS 70s from these boxes and the number was consistent. He challenged me to look into it myself and the very first MS70 ASE I got (part f a collection), sure enough, an obvious rim ding! That was when I was starting back into the hobby and was researching what the slabbing companies had become. Its not uncommon to find stuff like this. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
665 Posts |
Quote:
People long time ago stopped buying the coin. Now they buy the plastic and stickers  When it comes to bullion, the whole idea is an easily accessible means of collecting (or speculating on) a PM. Bullion is generally not minted to the high quality standards one can see with other issues. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of MS-70 Bullion. I am a big proponent of collecting whatever moves you... from various coin series through beanie babies, horse brasses or Doulton figurines... Slabbed Bullion is an example slab collecting and has very little to do with the encapsulated coin. I understand with some coins given their relative rarity in the marketplace and the prevalence of counterfeiting, an expert 3rd party opinion on whether a given item is legit can be helpful... (Anyone wanna buy my stack of 1933 Double Eagles  ) It is not difficult to acquire legitimate bullion product... Maybe it is my lack of vision but I just don't see a contemporary bullion coin... minted in quantities of tens of millions per year and sold at relatively low premiums as having any real availability constraints or risk of legitimacy as long as you are selective with where you purchase... current PM bubble notwithstanding. Maybe there should be a category on the forum dedicated to Slab collecting http://goccf.com/f/84. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3546 Posts |
Quote:
...sold at relatively low premiums as having any real availability constraints or risk of legitimacy Normally, this would be the case with typical Ag (silver) Eagles, such as the numerous 2020 issue with a mintage of 11,218,500. However, the particular Ag Eagle that tickled my interest enough to purchase one was the '2020 -"P" Emergency Issue'; it boasts a mintage of only 240,000. The bullion I picked up is the one scrutinized in this CCF thread. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5246 Posts |
Any coin will have imperfections if you use a great enough magnification. Coins are not struck in a clean room as the semiconductor industry uses, or is used for making telescope mirrors. There will be some amount of dust, etc.
So no coin is perfect, even the MS70 ones. The only question is how small and how few imperfections are needed for it to qualify for MS70.
This may seem silly, but whatever the MS70 standard is, you could in theory grade to an even higher standard. I am not suggesting that there is any point to that, but it could be done.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7279 Posts |
The coins you purchased are basic bullion. There is NO WAY to tell which ones were West Point and which ones where PA (other than the bands). They look exactly alike, there is no mint mark (like there is no mint mark for 1965-1967 coins, no one pays a premium for a coin from Denver or PA). These coins should have no value more than bullion. Good luck on making your money back on these. https://www.NGCcoin.com/news/article/711/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
I have a couple of things to say: Quote:
Quote:
People long time ago stopped buying the coin. Now they buy the plastic and stickers with this statement . Plus majority of potential buyers like these would probably be more than happy just to say they own one and confident that if there was ever an issue, PCGS would for the most part deal with it within the constraints of their warranty. Read it before buying any PCGS slab. Quote:
...to tell which ones were West Point and which ones where PA (other than the bands). Please explain exactly how the bands minted at PA differ from those coming from WP. Any side-by-side photos would be helpful if available. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7279 Posts |
You can read it here: https://www.coinworld.com/news/prec...ng-certifiedBasically: "Submitters will be required to send the entire, strapped and unopened monster box of Silver Eagles to verify the box tracking numbers as coming from the Philadelphia mint augmented production," "Monster boxes of 2020 American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins minted in Philadelphia were affixed with a typed label containing the box tracking number; additionally, box tracking numbers were hand written directly on the boxes," U.S. Mint said.
"Box tracking numbers 400,000 through and including 400,479 were used on boxes of coins minted in Philadelphia." The monster boxes each contain 25 tubes of 20 coins, for a total of 500 coins in each box.Edited by hfjacinto
09/16/2020 4:19 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
I agree with vonigohcr's sentiment of buying whatever you like. That said, I've never felt the need to get a 4th party (CAC) to validate a coin for me. As for the 3rd party grading services designating coins based on the band around the monster box, I just don't see the point. If you can't tell the difference between two coins by looking at them, then they're the same. I went to a coin show several years ago and there was a guy touting his company called MAC. The M stood for modern. I'm guessing the AC stood for acceptance corporation. He had modern coins, including ASE's, with MAC stickers on them. It was basically the same 4th party grading as CAC, but for modern coins. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7279 Posts |
I once purchased a coin and it was MAC stickered. I had no idea why it was stickered or what value it had, but the coin cost $12. I think someone lost on the slabbing costs.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1667 Posts |
CAC website says they do not accept modern or bullion coins. WHY? Because they don't. And yes, CAC rejects coins all the time and doesn't sticker them if they aren't top percentile for their grade of the coins they do certify. As far as grading goes, it's not limitless magnification. They stop at 7x and go to 10x up to 20x for error or variety attribution and Counterfeit Detection service when warranted. What you can find at 50x or 100x magnification has no bearing whatsoever on the grade. If it's perfect at 7x, it's perfect as far as that's concerned. PCGS isn't going to replace it or buy it from you. It's a MS70 by grading standards, it's you being unreasonable about it with your electron microscope. If you are unhappy with it take it up with the seller and send it back for a refund if they will do it. That is your only option here. I'm not going to even get into the gimmick of the "philidelphia emergency release". Good luck with that and one day getting what you paid for it back. That's another whole can of worms in itself. Edited by Big-Kingdom
09/21/2020 06:25 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3546 Posts |
Quote:
...it's you being unreasonable about it with your electron microscope. I hesitate to delve into the appropriateness of the word 'you' since this is not a thread on human behaviors. I would, however, like to address this comment's equipment-related segment without robbing my own thread. I did weigh the possibility of buying a pre-owned scanning electron microscope (SEM) taking me down to 7x to see the particular imperfection for this $ 200 coin. But the cost of a used one was near $ 1,000,000: I opted, instead, to really splurge on the following $ 5.00 iPhone macro clip-on (used for the close-up shots in this thread) photo lens kit risking the possibility that its excessive 10x (compared to 7x) mag power would be totally inappropriate to reject the 70 class for this featured bullion piece  : |
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Posted 09/12/2020 11:05 pm
