1984 Double Die Lincoln Cent

And neither PCGS nor NGC claim to follow " ANA" standard. If they did, they would also be able to agree upon the abbreviation for 'proof'. One correctly uses "PR" and the other improperly uses "PF".

Holy Cow, I go away for a few weeks and look what I almost missed. Great discussion. Now what about 'cent' vs. 'penny' ?

I'm sorry to hear that, but I know that your doing this out of your love for the hobby, and I respect that. Even though my interests are different, I'm really glad that your there for me to send people to for advice or just to cross check a new find. Your efforts are http://coppercoin.com are to be commended. To my knowledge, there are no other websites that offer as much useful information to collector's today, at least without subscribing. I really commend you on your dedication to Lincoln Cent varieties.
Maybe when this project gets complete it can be published in some form, but I imagine there still won't be a big profit involved, at least not compared with the countless hours you've spent putting this work together. Anyway Chuck, keep up the good work, and thanks for being there. ~ Jim

Hi,

I want to go on record as saying that those definitions on PCGS are horrible and were apparently written by someone who was clueless. They even spelled "doubled die" as doubled die where it is incorrectly listed under errors.

The first basic premise that a large amount of cluelessness was involved is based upon the fact that any die variety person knows that "double die" is incorrect and shows an extreme lack of knowledge on the subject.

They are just dead wrong and those definitions simply irk numismatists that are trying to teach things correctly. I take those goofy definitions with a grain of salt as they set this part of our hobby back fifty years or more.

Thanks,
Bill

I am still relatively "anal" I suppose where the terms cent and penny are used. While I accept the common usage of the word penny, Chuck points out the difference between the two. Our cents say ONE CENT and not ONE PENNY , which for example would be found on older British coins.

Being a person who collects anything that can be found in a roll. I have an interest in Cents as well as British and Irish Pennies which do turn up in half dollar rolls on occasion.

If someone tells me they found a 1945 Penny, it could be a non-U.S. coin , unless a further bit of information is added. If someone says they found a 1945 cent, I can guess they mean a U.S. cent although the cent is a denomination used in other countries.

I still want to have a clue if a coin is a penny or a cent and even though that is really an upstream swim, I try to use those terms as non-interchangeable.

I am not 100% at my effort and occasionally I call a cent a penny:-) but there is a little bit of education in understanding the difference.

Have Fun,
Bill

Well...I see there is an apparent discrepancy between how PCGS defines errors and that of many other experienced numismatists who specialize in these areas of study?
So, which is more accurate--a broad definition for an "error", or one that makes a specific distinction between errors that occur during striking and die varieties that originate with unique features on one die? Isn't this really comparing "apples to oranges"?

It strikes me that the intended goal for strict definitions is not to impose on individual collector's opinions, but create more clarity so everyone can share a common understanding and learn about die making and coining processes--or am I simply off-base here?

Something interesting. Try to find a wrapper for Cents that says Cents on it. Most of all I've seen say Pennies. Try to buy a collectors book to put your Cents in that says Pennies. You will be hard pressed to find one for U.S. Cents. But another thing interesting, you can buy books for Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, Halves, Dollars, but none that says Pennies on it. You never hear of a U.S.two Penny piece or Three Penny Silver or three penny piece or a half penny on U.S. Coins. They all say Half Cent, Cent, Two Cent, Three Cent (Silver or Nickel) Twenty Cent Piece Not 20 Penny piece. So it seems that pennies refer more to non collectors, but collectors prefer to say Cent.