| Author |
 Replies: 88 / Views: 6,696 |
|
New Member
United States
33 Posts |
what are the signs to know that a 1984 Lincoln Cent is a double die ? also what are some other very common error coins that appear in normal circulation, other then the 1970 cent. |
|
|
|
Rest in Peace
United States
3039 Posts |
Go to coppercoins.com & you'll see more than you can remember to look for.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
 which 1984 are you referring to? There are 6 DDOs and 1 DDR known. The big one is 1984P-1DO-001 which has strong doubling predominantly on the ear but also back of the head, beard, and bowtie. As far as errors go, I think you are confusing errors with die varieties. Doubled dies, repunched mint marks, Wide and Close AMs, etc are considered die varieties, i.e. it can be traced to a particular die. Errors would be things like clipped(incomplete) planchets, off center strikes, split clad layer, brockage, etc. Errors can happen to any coin at any time but most errors stand out from ordinary coins and can be difficult to find in circulation. Die varieties can be found in circulation with a bit of luck, a couple good reference books and a magnifier, and lots of perseverance. What exactly are you referring to with the 1970 cent? The small date variety? If that is the one, it is next to impossible to find one in circulation. You would be better off trying to cherrypick one  (if you are not familiar with the concept of "cherrypicking", that is the term for going through a dealer inventory looking for varieties that are not labeled as such- a good way to get a valuable coin without spending alot of money) |
|
New Member
 United States
33 Posts |
thanks, thats very helpful, and yes I was confused, so if theres a coin with a doubled date, etc. then it is not an error ? And yes I was refering the small date variety of the 1970 lincoln. I'll have to work on my cherry picking skills lol. any suggestions where I should look to build my collection, for cheap ?
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
if theres a coin with a doubled date, etc. then it is not an error ? That is correct although doubled dies are frequently(and incorrectly) referred to as errors. Terminology is very important in numismatics because the process of creating a coin is very complicated and a specific lexicon is required to accurately describe all steps and possible occurrences in that process. As far as working on your cherrypicking skills, there are two books you might want to check out- CPG Vol 1 and CPG Vol 2 |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5611 Posts |
timbryant1989, I would like to welcome you to this family here at the forum, have fun and the education you get from this forum, just reading, is wonderful, good luck... BIO, I do not want to create a problem, however a doubled date, In my opinion is a error IE: Doubled Dies, they are errors, and some have a Dbl'd date. ERROR: A mismade coin not intended for circulation. Mint Error: Any mismade or defective coin produced by a Mint. I do not believe everyone has the same feelings about an error however this is a very good topic for all to have their opinions discussed, that's what this forum is based on, all collectors speaking and exchanging opinions for the better of this hobby, also the knowledge one has may not be the blanket BELIEF for everyone else, Just my opinion.....  |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
I do not want to create a problem, however a doubled date, In my opinion is a error IE: Doubled Dies, they are errors, and some have a Dbl'd date.
Doubled dates can take a few forms- doubled die, repunched date(18th/19th century coinage only), or double struck(the coin is struck twice with spread). Doubled dies and RPDs are die varieties, there is no arguing with that whereas a double struck would be an error. Your own definition destroys your argument that they errors- Quote:
ERROR: A mismade coin not intended for circulation.
A DD or RPD is NOT a mismade coin- the die is mismade not the coin, hence they are die varieties. A DS would be a mismade coin since it was accidentally struck twice, hence it is an error. Numismatic terminology is not a "belief" or "opinion", the definitions are what they are and they are not interchangeable no matter how much particular terms are misused. Edited by biokemist6
04/08/2009 11:24 am
|
|
Valued Member
United States
198 Posts |
The battle to exactly what is a variety and what is a error has been ongoing for years simply because the rules tend to blur in certain areas. General rule of thumb, a error is a mis-struck coin. a variety is something that effects every coin struck by a specific die pair. Now, the Sacagawea mule can be considered both a variety and a error, so go figure! I disagree with the statement Quote:
ERROR: A mismade coin not intended for circulation. As every coin struck was intended for circulation. It's just that along the way some mistakes are made. Years ago these mistakes readily circulated right along with the well made coins. Just check ebay errors to see many early date errors with heavy wear on them. ~ Jim |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
Jim,
Tell me exactly where the 'rules blur' and I can clear it up. The definitions are definitely different and are for different things. Anyone who cannot tell the definite difference between an error, a variety, and a die variety doesn't know or completely understand the definitions, because they are explicitly clear.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5611 Posts |
Fellow collectors, this is an exact quote from the 2008-The Red Book, A guide of United States coins," ERROR," Bio, is everything considered an argument to you, you must have a legal back-round,LOL, If I was in a court of law, I would expect the language you use, this is not a Pre-trial hearing, nor a examination before trial, this is a friendly collectors forum. a discussion......I am also one of the collectors that believe a Doubled Die IS an error. I do not want to discuss whether this happened, during the striking process, die making process,the end result, an Error was made. Again, just my opinion..... This subject is not a new one and this will not be the last time it will be discussed, Just our opinions........ This is what is great about this nation, everyone is entitled to their Opinion, freedom of speech, most things are never going to be solved by an argument, If the Mint wanted to release imperfect coins, and they do, what would you call them, of course they are not intended to be imperfect, the designers would not want their work seen with "mistakes", IMO, these are Errors.........I placed the 'ERROR" quote in my last statement(page 405, 2008-red book ) to show that most..., have their own Idea about Errors, and look what has been discussed........ |
|
Valued Member
United States
198 Posts |
Hi Chuck, Well the case I sited is a good example, where it's a variety and a error and thus cannot be catagorized as one or the other specifically. RPM's are also vague, as they are a variety affecting all coins struck by a die yet also a human error, and there are other examples. You've heard all the rhetoric over the years as I have. I'm surprised that you can find the time to spend here! How did your comprehensive reference work on Lincoln Cent die varieties go? You've done a incredible job with http://coppercoins.com it's getting to be a "standard reference". ~ Jim |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
Quote:Fellow collectors, this is an exact quote from the 2008-The Red Book, A guide of United States coins," ERROR," That's simple, both the Red Book and Blue Book are wrong. Seriously, Ken Potter weighed in when he wrote this: http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article502.chtmlAlso, good discussion in The Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection by Alan Herbert. To me, even though an error may occur in working with the die, if they started making coins with it and decide that the coins pass the mint standards, the coins themselves are not error coins. A human error caused the variety. |
|
Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
Quote:Also, good discussion in The Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection by Alan Herbert I would recommend this book to everyone. Great tool for anyone that really wants to learn about diagnostics and grading. swcoin.ecrater.com
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
While we're plugging the book...
The book catalogs the different types of errors and varieties that occur on coins. Herbert gives details on the stages in the process that errors/varieties are created: planchet, die preparation, or strike. Also, an indication is given to what could cause each particular variety or error: intentional, error (either human or mechanical), or wear.
Been a while since I looked at the book, hopefully that's a good overview.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
you must have a legal back-round Umm, no but I am a scientist and I do have a very precise and analytical background so I am a stickler for details and strive to be correct in my sayings and writings at all times- that means taking the time to study and learning things the proper way. To reiterate my point, opinion has nothing to do with the terminology at all- these are facts and opinion is irrelevant to facts. These are not my definitions, they have been established by the numismatic community. I am merely here to help properly educate people in the field of numismatics. Feel free to call apples oranges all day long but that does not change the fact that apples are apples and oranges are oranges. Many new collectors rely on others to help describe a coin for them but if the coin is improperly described, that is a great disservice to the new collector(and probably soon-to-be ex-collector). That is an ebay mentality that has ruined a number of collectors when they find out the rare "error" they paid alot of money for is in reality just a normal part of the minting process and is essentially worthless. Education is an incredibly important part of numismatics but everyone has to start out by being properly educated in the first place. |
| |
Replies: 88 / Views: 6,696 |
Posted 04/07/2009 5:27 pm
