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Replies: 41 / Views: 29,739 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
531 Posts |
I can report that there are several producers of US Two Cent Pieces in China. All dates are being produced. As time permits I have been working on an article with illustrations of known Chinese counterfeits. A complete listing of US coins being counterfeited in China could well resemble a Red Book.
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Valued Member
United States
289 Posts |
I am thankful for the list of what you posted here, but it also scares me to death. I recently have just started buying off ebay and it seems (to me at least) almost impossible for me to determine from the pictures that are listed sometimes to be able to determine accurately. I plan on not buying any coin off ebay over 100$. I hope if any of you out there have any "copy" coins, like the pictures (Like the ones Nickel Guy posted) please put them up for us to look at. I don't have near the knowledge that some of you do so the more I can learn the better. Thanks for the posts. PS, Nickel Guy where did you obtain that list you posted?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
A low cost authentication, but not grading, service for low end coins would be something cool for ANACS, etc... to offer.
Would allow people to buy less expensive coins with some peace of mind that they are not getting duped.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
10284 Posts |
Quote: PS, Nickel Guy where did you obtain that list you posted? I would not say because the list came from a very pleasant person from ASIA and while the fakes are illegal to sell in the USA that seller adds COPY or REPLICA to them when he sells them to the USA buyers on auction sites, so I am told. I bought them for my own collection and so I could learn from them so I could avoid getting ripped off. I personally would NEVER sell these and the holders I have them in say counterfeit copy should they end up in my estate when I am gone. It is not difficult to get these but I will not promote it in any way. Some people may go and use them for dishonest resale. The seller opted to not stamp the coins with a punch that says COPY but I did not get them by auction. There are many places to get them, I have mixed feelings about being part of the problem by supporting this practice when I bought them but then on the other hand what I have posted is for the good of the hobby and therefore I don't lose any sleep over it. Please, be careful with how you present any of these fakes should you acquire any. As for being nervous about buying coins (anywhere) I suggest what the old-timers told me when I first got started collecting. Pick a series that you like and study that series. I chose Jefferson nickels since they were readily available for a nickel a piece and after awhile, I could tell what was typical for each and every date and mint and grade in the series. I then kept those that were above average for each date. I soon learned that certain dates had weak strikes or were from worn dies and when I found one that looked as if it was well struck with lots of sharp lettering and full steps for example, I knew I had something a bit more special. I saved all the better ones even if they were as common as a 1963 D. A typical 1963 D Jefferson in MS65 might be bought for $5.00 but find an MS65 with sharp details and 5 steps and you have a very scarce coin worth hundreds and perhaps thousands of dollars to a collector of full step nickels. There are a lot of other specific coins in the series that have similar circumstances. It also goes the same for Mercury dimes with full split bands, Franklin halves with Full bell lines, Standing Liberty quarters with Full heads and on and on. Then there are varieties with doubled dies and re-punched mintmarks. Lots to learn. If you held a FAKE Jefferson 2 feet away from me now I think I could tell that it was not right. You can pick any series and the experience of studying them will pay off. Once you are pretty good at one series, the lesson you learned will help with all coins. Quote: A low cost authentication, but not grading, service for low end coins would be something cool for ANACS, etc... to offer. Would allow people to buy less expensive coins with some peace of mind that they are not getting duped.
I also agree it would be great if there was an inexpensive service to certify authentic coins. The holder could be inexpensive like the Canadian coins are with ICCS and you could grade it yourself. I don't think I would go with SGS though. 
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Valued Member
United States
289 Posts |
NickelGuy. I don't want to buy them even if it's from my own education. I've learned a lot in a few years but not near what others have here, but even I can at least see the "strike" difference particularly on the rims and the lettering of the coins you posted. Where we are there is NO coin stores worth a hoot, so my only option is looking through ebay. With what you listed it shows that virtually ANY coin now may be possible for copying and the pictures that some sellers are posting I realize purposely is deceptive. I won't buy anything like that I can't even tell details from the pictures posted so I'll just keep searching until I see one that I will have a better feeling about, plus their feedback, etc.. One other concern I have is that the pictures you posted are more obvious, what if those coins were "tumbled" around for a while which would make it much more difficult to know they are authentic. You say "pick a series", my problem is that I've been so interested I have many books I've been working on from Cents all the way to Halves (no real dollars to speak of), perhaps it's my ADD kicking in  . Still, thanks a lot for all the info on this.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote: So basically everything of any value is being faked. If people start faking coins that have a value under $10, we're all screwed. I don't want to have to study the mintmark position and such on a F-12 1918-S Lincoln or something similar Your kidding of course. China has no such thing as a only make expensive stuff fakes. They make all kinds of things that are fakes and sell for a few dollars or less. My favorites are batteries. I haven't the slightest idea of how to really spell that Duracell thing anymore. I've seen Dinocell, Denocel, Danocell and many, many more. And even some with the correct spelling whichever that is. And those all sell for pennies. So making a coin that sells for over a dollar is well worth it for them.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3234 Posts |
I have a feeling that a lot of these fake "coins" would barely fool a 4 year old, especially if they have ever seen a real one. I go back to the 3CN example. I have yet to see any fake 3CN actually intended to fool a collector. Are there one's with COPY on it...sure? Are there one's that are the size of coasters...probably? Are there any that look like a mangled version of the real thing...based on what the poster is inferring, I guess so? However, I would have a hard time putting them really in the "counterfeit" category and more likely put them into the "toy" category.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Prethen, how about that 1885 3CN he posted earlier. Yes I know it wouldn't fool you or me, but I bet it would fool a fair number of collectors and even some dealers because they DON'T know the series real well.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
10284 Posts |
People are being fooled all the time on ebay and wasting hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars on $2.00 copies. I reported 3 listings in the last week. Only 1 got removed so either ebay wants the final value fees or the same quality "toys" are fooling ebay too. I bet I can find an auction within a half hour that is getting bid up by ebay members with probably more than a little experience in coin collecting. My purpose in posting this topic was for educational reasons as I have been seeing a lot of posts lately questioning these very same quality fakes. I use the adjective "quality" loosely. Thank you Conder101 for your comment. It took me some time and frustration to take the pictures and present the images and come up with the words to try to help out CCF members who may not be so well informed on these counterfeit coins. These are the very same coins mentioned in respected numismatic publications and many other articles can be read in this or similar searches on this Google search I provide. I could spot a Henning nickel in a pile of coins myself since I am a Jefferson nickel collector first. It is in my opinion a somewhat poor but classic counterfeit coin, but others that were unaware have circulated them since the 1950's. If somebody pulled a common Morgan dollar that looked as good as the 1881 CC out of their pocket and handed it to me and asked me if I wanted to buy it, I might offer them $20.00. I probably would buy it quickly if I didn't have a magnifying glass and magnet handy.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Here is an older thread I started showing how some of these have a porous surface. This is one of the Chinese fakes from one of the buyers that was the largest on ebay until they kicked him off. https://goccf.com/t/88814Read further down the thread and you will see where I also got a 1799 silver fake from the same guy. It would be very hard to tell it as a fake except the front die and back die belong to two different coins.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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Pillar of the Community
United States
651 Posts |
Coinforgeryebay on flickr is a great site to visualize the large number of counterfeit coins and holders especially the PCGS holders. check them out.
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Valued Member
United States
115 Posts |
Thanks, fcrazo....whoever has put together this flickr stream has done collectors a great service!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2044 Posts |
I saw a 1943 copper Wheat cent fake on ebay awhile back. And I wouldn't doubt it if a fake 1974 aluminum penny were found either.
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Valued Member
United States
326 Posts |
I'm kinda speechless with the amount of fakes out there. I thought the reales coins were heavily copied but it appears all is fair game.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3234 Posts |
I must admit that that's the first time I've ever seen someone that tried counterfeiting a 3CN, but that would definitely be the key year to do it for...1885. And, I must further admit, that it doesn't immediately scream "FAKE" to me. I'm curious to know how you were able to find this fake...and, by the way, thank you very much for showing it off. I'm guessing it's a Chinese counterfeit and I'm sure some poor slobs will be losing a lot of money buying them. Personally, I would likely never buy a key date 3CN without them being certified or from a reputable dealer that would provide such a guarantee.
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Replies: 41 / Views: 29,739 |