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1837 Capped Bust Dime

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dsfreeworld's Avatar
United States
4337 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2013  10:56 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I like this one

I'm contemplating sending this to NGC to see if it nabs a high MS grade, or am I out of my mind for that thought due to the hits that are there? What would it grade? I am clueless on one like this

Its crusty, unmolested, never seen daylight type to my eyes, no?

Also, acetone and verdi-care or just acetone? How long do I soak for?



1837-Capped-Bust-Dime

1837-Capped-Bust-Dime
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Tassa's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 02/19/2013  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tassa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin doesn't appear to be MS and it might be bagged for environmental damage. If you're considering using acetone because of the green spots, I would recommend dabbing a cotton swab in the acetone then press directly on the spots-don't rub.
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CoinsKelly's Avatar
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 Posted 02/19/2013  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi dsfreeworld, it looks like nice crusty originality to me. You know my preference is to leave them alone without the soak; soak only if there is something that is causing damage. I prefer my coins au naturale.

I am not sure about it being mint state. The pictures kind of look like there is rub on the cap and the eagle's wings. I am not familiar with these so it could also be a weak strike strike.

I look forward to see how others chime in on this pretty coin
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 02/19/2013  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You know my preference is to leave them alone without the soak; soak only if there is something that is causing damage.


This is one for the soak; the green spots on the reverse make me . I wouldn't use a Q-tip, though, by personal preference but I might employ a toothpick or rose thorn. Tough call but I can't see a Mint State coin here. This issue is pricey indeed in Mint State, and I think a TPG would err on the side of caution.
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CoinsKelly's Avatar
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 Posted 02/19/2013  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is one for the soak;


When SSDD talks, people listen! He is da man on da cleaning advice.
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
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 Posted 02/19/2013  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Dave, the green spots are driving me nuts...what about verdi-care?
how long should I soak for?

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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 02/19/2013  3:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not so sure I like being the "go-to" guy on coin cleaning....

The vibrance of the green color on the reverse scares the stuffin' out of me. Even at AU50, if this makes a "righteous" slab it's still a $400 coin. My guess is the gouge on the shield might make it a Details coin, though. Either way, that green needs to go away before submitting or they'll refuse to slab it at all.

Here's what you do, dsfreeworld: Acquire a quart of acetone from Home Depot or Lowe's, in the paint section. Treat it like gasoline for storage purposes, and do this operation in a well-ventilated area like your garage or the bathroom with the fan on. Drop the coin into a shot glass, fill it with acetone and cover it with a little pane of glass to prevent evaporation - this stuff is volatile as heck and it'll evaporate quickly.

Latex kitchen gloves will provide sufficient protection for your fingers, but don't soak your fingers as it'll eventually break down.

Have a second shotglass or something reasonably small (so as not to waste acetone) to serve as a quick rinse after a soak; use that rinse only once each time. Have a magnifier handy, so you can see the "infected" areas clearly. Give the first soak two hours, pull the coin and swish it immediately in the rinse (which you pour immediately before use). Then lose both the original soak solution and the rinse solution; acetone is miscible with water so you can safely pour it down the drain while water is running, but give the running water plenty of time to wash it away. Rinse both glasses under pressure, as well, to "blast" away any crud that's been deposited.

No need to ever use water on the coin itself; acetone evaporates cleanly and leaves no residue once the PVC infestation is gone. I don't expect one soak will do the job, though.

Have a look at the coin under magnification, with a toothpick - even better, waste a couple dollars on a grocery-store rose to obtain thorns (tell the hubby you want roses but don't tell him exactly why), and porcupine quills work wonderfully if you happen to have a porcupine handy - and pick at the areas where you can still see green. Acetone softens the crud, and you should be able to physically remove what you still see.

Once this is done, repeat the two-hour soak/rinse/magnification/hubby's roses. This second soak should likely make the job "look" done. But I put that term in quotes for a reason. This is where you start a third soak, and this one goes overnight. Two consecutive quick rinses in the morning, and then go over it with a fine-tooth comb with all the magnification you have to bear. You can expect there to be smaller dots of PVC in areas not even visible in the photos above, and you need to make sure that nothing is left on the coin or it will just come back.

That should do it. Do not be afraid to repeat those two-hour soaks as often as necessary before the overnight; the acetone will not harm the coin.
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
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 Posted 02/19/2013  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
excellent david and thank you
i will take care of this in the manner described less my husband getting me roses since I am the husband and will get them for my wife and take the thorns

process to occur over the next week with both before and after pics
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 02/19/2013  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please forgive me; I'd mistaken myself for conversing with CoinsKelly for some reason.
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westcoin's Avatar
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 Posted 02/19/2013  5:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think this coin will make Mint State at a TPG, the big hit on the reverse in the shield of the eagle might even get it into a details holder, or possible surface damage. I think the green spots maybe PVC contaminate, get thee off thy coin ASAP. I would never do any cleaning that would change the tone of this coin either. Worst case scenario EF45 details - best case AU53 IMO.
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
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 Posted 02/19/2013  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Please forgive me


no worries
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vermontensium's Avatar
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 Posted 02/19/2013  8:19 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Tough call but I can't see a Mint State coin here


I'd have to agree. XF45 Details sounds about right. Might squeeze an AU50 out of her.
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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
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 Posted 02/19/2013  11:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If sent in, I think may come back EF-45 details possibly AU-50 details. While the coin has a nice crusty look, it is dark in spots and may be labeled environmental damage by the graders. The scratch on the reverse doesn't help either.
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
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 Posted 02/22/2013  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
first off, David, you're da man! I did exactly as you stated and every bit of green is gone

i soaked and swished and soaked and swished and rose thorn and BOOM! buh-bye pvc residue!

I'm stoked

to give you all an idea of how much luster this puppy has, I used my IPHONE cam for these. Tonight I will take another set of microscope shots like the first set that started the thread to show the no longer present green monster

seeing luster, any thoughts of an AU coin here now?

1837-Capped-Bust-Dime

1837-Capped-Bust-Dime
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Jaobler's Avatar
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 Posted 02/22/2013  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
EF-45 in my book, with a fair chance at being slabbed problem-free. The new photos make the scratches more noticeable and surfaces look less original. Other than the removal of green spots, has the appearance of the coin really changed as much as the before-and-after photos suggest?
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
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 Posted 02/22/2013  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks Jaobler. No, the appearance is spot on; its the photos making it appear as it does. the first set is a 400x microscope cam that really filters out the lighting source whereas the second set is a smartphone cam that allows the lighting source in more. Tonight I will do a repeat of the first series with some different lighting that will allow a better take on the coin...I think.

My question for you, why do you think the surfaces look less original? Do you suspect that at any point in time this coin was artificially toned? My experience, which I suspect is far less than yours, tells me that when you get the type of mottled crusty tarnish this coin actually has and can be seen under the aforementioned 400x zoom, that finish and appearance cannot be accomplished with any techniques a coin doctor would employ, i.e. sulfur from boiled egg yolk, oil/potato etc... Thoughts?
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