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1915 Shilling Variety?

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oh my florin's Avatar
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 Posted 05/31/2013  05:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree Mr T although what I found weird is that they produced two master dies just for their production run when one would have been enough for the run perhaps one was lost late in production or maybe after a few transfers from the master die to the working dies which were used at the London mint it was transferred to the heaton mint for their strikings and simply changed to include the H while a new Master die was produced in London? we will probably never know why
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Mr T's Avatar
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 Posted 05/31/2013  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, hard to say. I'm sure looking at The Royal Mint's and the Heaton Mint's log-books would be a worthwhile exercise but that may not be so easy.
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 Posted 06/08/2013  05:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are a number of date varieties for the 1915 Penny. Scarcest is the wide date variety. Probably a case of individually dating the dies rather than a master for such small mintages.
Staff shortages in wartime may be one reason.
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oh my florin's Avatar
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 Posted 06/08/2013  06:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
good point nealeffendi but I don't think it is a case of individually dating the dies because if they were all subject to this then how come three quarters of the entire mintage has the exact same alignment with only one quarter showing the variety. Anyway an interesting point is that the mint would create a die with only the century and then take copies of that and then place the decade on the copy then take another copy and then put the last part of the date this is then the master die for that year with all of the working dies for that year will be taken of the one master die.

Sometimes they sink another master die with an slightly different or misaligned last digit e.g. 1931 drop, 1915 shilling 2nd 1 right or left and the 1946 florin large 6 but this is a case of a misaligned decade digit which is one step above the Master die leading to the conclusion of at the very least three different master dies for the year (1915 second 1 leaning right, 1915 second 1 leaning left and 1915 9 leaning right.) It is most probable that the Heaton Mint only had dies sent from the London Mint (no government mint would give the tools, mean or knowledge to produce dies to a private mint.)
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 Posted 06/08/2013  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
oh my florin
Are you certain that 3/4ths have exactly the same alignment?
I went through my 1915 pennies years ago and found at least 7 different date varieties. Admittedly the variations were mostly small and the coins VG so the differences could be illusory. Then again if each die was individually dated the craftsman would have been aiming for consistency (but failing on dies such as the wide date). Perhaps I will have to get around to taking high res images and comparing them on a computer to see if I'm wrong in my conclusions.
The 31 drop wasn't just a different hub but a different master die (look at the beads/denticles).
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oh my florin's Avatar
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 Posted 06/08/2013  9:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nealeffendi I think there were 4 different dies used that year according to my fred levers variety book they are London 1931, Indian 1931, Indian 1931 dropped and London 1931 dropped and I think you are referring to the difference between the London and Indian ones although there are 1931 London without the dropped ones and with the dropped one. Sorry if it came across the wrong way.

Anyway for the shillings I am quite sure it is around 81% (typed 3/4 my mistake it was a long night) been analysing quite a few of the coins here is my breakdown of the mintage of the 1915 shillings in to their varieties. By the way the first two varieties the 1915 second 1 left and right show absolutely no change in the alignment of the 9.
1915 2nd 1 left 55%
1915 2nd 1 right 26%
1915 2nd 1 right and misaligned 9 19%
And on the point of illusory it is noticeable that the 9 does change its alignment please look at my first two pictures in my first post and look particularly at the nines they speak for themselves and anyway I have used the exact same technique to determine the variety on the coins which show it as those that don't so I have been consistent.
Edited by oh my florin
06/08/2013 10:01 pm
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 Posted 06/09/2013  05:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh My Florin
I was referring to the 1915 pennies in regards to the minor differences in dates. As for the 1915 shilling I have to rely on others as I'm a novice in regards to shilling varieties (plus I only have a small number and they are well below VG, so far below that it is hard to even read the date on a few).
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 Posted 06/09/2013  05:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh sorry read it the wrong way I should really get some sleep
Edited by oh my florin
06/09/2013 06:00 am
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