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 Replies: 23 / Views: 3,890 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
504 Posts |
Any member looking for a filler large cent 1858 full vine but not in good shape than check the 58 cents on ebay.Good luck as it is hard to come by in any grade. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2366 Posts |
Now if you could just point me to a legitimate broken vine variety. That's a hole in my collection that's been bugging me for a long time now!
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
504 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2366 Posts |
Hard to tell (particularly with my eyes!) but I think the stem is there; just scoured. Thanks though!
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Valued Member
Canada
187 Posts |
Don't mean to be ignorant, but what's the broken vine variety? Or was that a tongue in cheek response? Thanks
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1349 Posts |
I think he means the 1858 cent with an intact vine and with one broken stem (at leaf #9). Coins from this die (RA4) are very, very scarce. It is a neat variety that we convinced Charlton to include in their standard catalog. I have collected 1858 cents for many years and have seen less than ten of these, the highest in EF. Obviously, more are out there, but they are a tough coin.
There is one other 1858 reverse die with a cleanly broken stem to Leaf #9 (a scarce coin), and several reverse dies with very faint stems to Leaf #9 (very common). All of these have an obvious vine break at Leaf #13 and collectively are relatively common. Many unwittingly (?) try to sell these as the elusive RA4 at elevated prices. Buyer beware.
Three reverse dies (RA1, RA2, and RA3) made 1858 cents with intact vines and all sixteen intact stems. About one 1858 cent in 25 comes from one of these three reverse dies, but I only know of two in mint state.
Edited by bosox
06/07/2013 6:32 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
187 Posts |
How are the leaves numbered? Is the leaf at 12:00 leaf #1, and are they numbered clockwise from there? I have a rather nice cent with an unbroken vine, and would love to know if I have the rare variety.
Thanks
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1349 Posts |
Leaf just the right of 12:00 is number 1. Bottom leaf is number 9. Long stems are odd numbered, short stems are even numbered. There is a leaf numbering picture in the last couple of Charlton catalogs.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2366 Posts |
As usual, bosox knows what he's talking about!  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
so full vine is fully intact vine (not just intact at the #9 leaf with the broken stem) ?
if so it looks like there are a lot of breaks in the vine (in the same places as the one I currently have up)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1349 Posts |
Wade,
The 1858 cent you referenced is the most common 1858 reverse and is often mistaken for the full vine, broken stem at Leaf #9. You can clearly see the vine break at Leaf #13 on this coin and the stem at Leaf #9 is just weak, not clearly broken. This is a common coin that many try to pass off as the RA4 coin shown in Charlton. Again, one of the two key merkers is the full vine, no break at Leaf #13.
Rob
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1349 Posts |
Here is the one I am talking about. If you have one of these, it is very scarce. Note the lack of vine break at Leaf #13, or anywhere else. Note that the stem to Leaf #9 has a clean break, and doesn't just fade out. [URL="http://s467.photobucket.com/user/dornoch/media/1858-RA4-JPG.jpg.html]  [/URL] Edited by bosox
06/08/2013 03:24 am
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Valued Member
Canada
372 Posts |
The coin for sale has been wire brushed.Must hurt like hell
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Bosox..Thanks for adding that super large photo of the "right" 1858. Great reference pic for the future. Here I was thinking that I "might" have one...  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2366 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
I was referring to the ebay wire brush job, If I read the OP correctly he's claiming it to be an intact vine (?) which it isn't (?) |
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Replies: 23 / Views: 3,890 |
Posted 06/05/2013 11:41 pm
