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Straits Settlement - Full Brockage?

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NCSU_Pi's Avatar
United States
25 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2013  11:39 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add NCSU_Pi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi, I'm a new user here, and pretty new to coin collecting. My father-in-law was gracious enough to let me curate the coin collection he inherited from his father. It had been gathering dust in a closet, partially placed in sleeves and partially loose. Anyway, I came across a very odd coin. The obverse is of a Victorian Straits Settlement coin (and perhaps other coinage?). I know this much because there were other Straits Settlements coins in the collection so far. But the reverse is completely gone, with a mirror image of the obverse that's concave on the back.

I don't know the likelihood that such a thing would be faked (or how well it could be) by pressing coins. I have no reason to suspect my father-in-law or his father (they didn't need the money or attention), but it could always have been a fake that he picked up along the way. So you won't hurt my feelings telling me so. Anyway, have a look and let me know what you think.

Straits-Settlement---Full-Brockage?

Straits-Settlement---Full-Brockage?

Thanks!
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Mr T's Avatar
Australia
2180 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  01:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is it the right weight and diameter?
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Thailand
1509 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  05:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thai-vic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A coin is stamped in the press but is not ejected. Another blank then appears on the top of the unejected coin, by a fluke, in alignment. New coin stamp stamped. This would produce a 'negative" obverse on the reverse.
Possible?
That's all I could think of in which case it's a very unusual and interesting coin.
And welcome to the CCF!
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Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  06:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What I find troubling is that the obverse (or the Queen's head) shows signs of circulation, however the reverse doesn't seem to show much. I would have expected a few more scratches or wear at least.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  08:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with gxseries.

The very first thing that needs to be checked is the weight of this piece against an eqivalently worn standard coin, before the following discussion is entered into.

One thing that puzzles me, is how such an unusual piece could remain in circulation for such time to sustain this much wear, albeit on one side only. The fields on the brokage side seem to be relatively unscathed.

Having made this point, it otherwise looks like a perfectly good brokage.
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NCSU_Pi's Avatar
United States
25 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  09:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NCSU_Pi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Keep in mind, I can't vouch for how this coin was stored for the last handful of decades. I wouldn't expect such a coin without denomination to get passed for long in circulation, so maybe it's bounced around in a ziplock bag. Given that the only side with elements that are proud of surface are the obverse, wear on one side could occur without much evidence on the reverse, no? Only offering that as a possible explanation.

Later today, I should be able to compare the weight to another Straits Settlements coin of the same size. I believe it's the size of a 1 Cent piece. I don't really trust the absolute accuracy of my cheap, crappy scale, but it does seem very repeatable. So it's a start.
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1962 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  2:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, firstly... does look to be the 1845/1862 Straits Sett. 1 cent-sized obverse.

As mentioned, weight is the first thing necessary to verify it (a $10 0.1 gram dig. scale is accurate enough)... Assuming that's OK, the questions of A) why does it look more worn on one side, and B) how could such an oddity survive in circulation so long have been raised.

A) is easy... you have a INVERTED image on the other side, NOT raised - it's protected (see below an NGC40 Indian 1/4 rupee brockage showing this same effect - from the Apr. 2013 Ponterio Hong Kong auct, brought $810). As for the error side being free of marks, it's maybe a bit smoother than the face side, but not perfect - some discoloration, a few rim ticks, and a clear old cut by the neck area. Mind you, the other side isn't beaten up either (minus the more pronounced staining).

I also think there's a little optical illusion w/this piece just b/c the face-side is so simple in terms of design elements that its inversion looks atypical.

B) How did it last in the wild long enough to get that worn? A bit unusual, but remember, this isn't a piece from England or another developed country... this is mid-1800's Malaysia. I wouldn't find it too shocking that people (especially away from the city) might look, say "Heh" for a second, then continue on with their business. Also, keep in mind this WAS a type that circulated for a fairly long time (later design was the same size)... there wouldn't be any issue recognizing what it was supposed to be, I don't think.

Of course, there are ways of fabricating such things (and clearly the motivation to do so b/c they bring a good price) so you have to scrutinize it, and this is not my area at all... but the piece strikes me as honest.
Straits-Settlement---Full-Brockage?
Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another note on the illusion of wear only on the protruding side - this happens to be a design with a fairly high-relief bust, likely exaggerating that effect...
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NCSU_Pi's Avatar
United States
25 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  8:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NCSU_Pi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good news: I took out another Straits Settlement 1 cent coin for comparison. It's a different year, as the Victorian bust is slightly larger and perhaps older (as in - the coin is younger and features an older effigy of the Queen). Anyway, they're the same diameter, and on my little scale, the 'complete' coin wavers between 9 and 9.1g, and the possible brockage coin comes in at 9g.

I also noticed a bit of a lip along one arc of the coin. I think it may come from an off-center strike...? You can probably see evidence of that from the pictures I posted.

So now the question is, where do we (my FIL and I) go from here? I saw where a TPG service will attempt to verify mint errors on world coins. I have no idea if it's worth going through that. Also, I have no idea what kind of value it may hold, so I'm not sure what tier of service we'd want to request. Any ideas?

Thanks for your help and hospitality, btw.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1/4 rupee pictured is much more close to what I would have thought a circulated brokage should look like.
Nevertheless at this juncture, I still can't get myself away from the opinion that the Straits Settlements coin is a rather nice brokage.

I would definitely would have liked to examine the piece in hand.
That being said, it would be a good thing to take it to someone with respected numismatic experience, who CAN examine the piece in hand.
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BillSnyder's Avatar
778 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2013  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BillSnyder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Here's mine, though it appears to be a different Victoria type. (My Krause and the coin are not at hand).



Straits-Settlement---Full-Brockage?

Straits-Settlement---Full-Brockage?


Bill
Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2013  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think that's the 50c obverse for Str. Sett. (Hong Kong is virtually the same, but with the Heaton mint "H" below the bust). Excellent companion piece to this thread... Wear level pretty close to the originally posted piece.

It seems from what I've casually noticed in the past and from some quick searching in regards to this thread that this wasn't a totally uncommon occurrence for the British Asia issues.
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NCSU_Pi's Avatar
United States
25 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2013  4:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NCSU_Pi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I took it by a coin shop in town. In the guy's opinion, it's likely genuine and not like anything he'd seen before. He couldn't place a value on it, but I think I'm gonna send it off to have it graded, verified as a mint error, and slabbed. Then it's up to my father-in-law. It'd be a cool piece to pass down, so it'll be good to have it preserved anyway.

I also took by some Order of Malta coins, including a 1738 Scudo that's probably close to VG. Book value is $300. May get that graded and slabbed as well.

Thanks once more for all your input.
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NCSU_Pi's Avatar
United States
25 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  9:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NCSU_Pi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry to bump an old thread, but I did finally get this back from NGC through a local coin shop. They verified the mint error.

I have no idea of a potential value, but it's a cool piece, and it's not for sale right now anyway

Straits-Settlement---Full-Brockage?
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  11:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it has been slabbed as genuine, then I reckon a value of around $100 to $150 on the retail market.
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NCSU_Pi's Avatar
United States
25 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  11:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NCSU_Pi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good to know, thanks.
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