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Lincoln Wheat Cent Keys

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Pillar of the Community
okie-colin's Avatar
United States
1083 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2007  10:25 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have gone about as far as my budget will allow with the Dansco 7103 - Lincoln Cents 1909 to 1958. I have all the dates now except for the 1909-S VDB, 1914-D, and the 1922 No D. I have even upgraded many of the dates I had that were corroded, or had more wear than I was willing to accept. I found that a couple of the filled holes from my childhood Whitman folder were not even the correct date and/or mint mark, when examined under a strong magnifying glass. It is a fine looking set now, except for the three missing keys. The average grade is VF-20. Many of the later dates are BU. Nothing like a mint fresh, shiny new Wheat penny - a beautiful coin. Obviously my three missing dates are keys, but where and how do you draw the line? Are the 1909-S and 1931-S also considered keys? What about the 1924-D, the 1909 VDB or the 1910-S and 1915-S or 1922-D - keys or semi-keys? I hope some day to have enough cash to complete this set, but who knows what the 1909-S VDB and the other two will cost in five years? For now, just like my Buffalo nickel set that is missing three dates, I will have to be satisfied with what I have accomplished. Is it worth it to you to spend the time and money to fill a set knowing that you can't really finish it or afford the last few coins? Thoughts? At least this set has diverted my mind from the devastation the ice storm has brought to Tulsa and my home and landscaping. It looks like a bomb has gone off. Peace.
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ceaton's Avatar
United States
1179 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2007  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ceaton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just recently started my Lincoln collection in the new 8100 dansco with proofs. I have bought a few random sets to pick and choose the good ones. I have most everything from 41 up, except for a few proofs. I now know that the expensive parts comes in with the 41's and below wheats. I dont think i'll ever buy a 1909S VDB. I am pretty sure that I will get everything else. I'll make it my goal to somehow find the 09s vdb. I'd rather hunt for it for years then to drop $1500 or more on it.

So I definetely think its worth the time and money to fill these sets, even with a few holes. I have way to much fun doing the cheaper coins then buying the expensive ones. I plan on starting other sets once my lincoln is done too, and trust me...those will have holes to :)
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2007  03:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Are the 1909-S and 1931-S also considered keys? What about the 1924-D, the 1909 VDB or the 1910-S and 1915-S or 1922-D - keys or semi-keys?


The coins listed above while they are pricey are in all reality semi keys based solely on mintages.

however some of them are way more difficult to find really nice examples of than the 09-S VDB.

Metalman
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Jamez's Avatar
United States
750 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2007  07:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jamez to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why not take the set you have now, Sell it, use the money to buy the SVDB and start again, this time one coin closer to completion?

Picking up coins under 20 bucks is easy, plopping down several hundred is tough sometimes.

Pillar of the Community
okie-colin's Avatar
United States
1083 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2007  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are the 1909-S and 1931-S also considered keys? What about the 1924-D, the 1909 VDB or the 1910-S and 1915-S or 1922-D - keys or semi-keys?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
The coins listed above while they are pricey are in all reality semi keys based solely on mintages.

however some of them are way more difficult to find really nice examples of than the 09-S VDB.

Metalman
Yes, some of them are more difficult to find, however if mintages are the only criterion, why is the 1931-S a semi-key? Next to the 1909-S VDB it has the lowest mintage of the series. More than just supply and demand is at work here I think.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2007  11:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim1953 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okie, mint quantities are only a part of the valuation process. As much as anything, it is the perceived existing population, and for some coins in particular, the population in each grade.

That is why some coins will have almost no value in a low grade and go thru the roof on the high end. If almost all the known mintage went into circulation there will be fewer examples of high grade coins and plenty of worn ones. If you study Morgan prices you sill see examples like the 1883-S. Tends to be lots of lower grade coins and then the price jumps as soon as you get to AU.

I would assume that pricing tends to reflect the population by grade as recorded by the TPGs. By now, they have accumulated a mass of population numbers and they are representative on average of the whole.

Jim
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okie-colin's Avatar
United States
1083 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2007  12:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Right Jim. I was just responding to Metal on his statement that mintage numbers are solely what makes a key date. If that were true the 31-S would be one. As you point out there are other factors. In more modern series, marketing may play a part also.
Valued Member
Twentycent's Avatar
United States
187 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2007  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Twentycent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
okie-colin, I don't think Metalman is saying keys are based only on mintages.

I took the statement as meaning 'if' you listed only the mintage criteria.



Jerry
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okie-colin's Avatar
United States
1083 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2007  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, I think I took that too literally. Thanks.
Valued Member
Twentycent's Avatar
United States
187 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2007  3:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Twentycent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only thing I've found fun to do lately is try to put together
rolls of coins off the beaten path. For wheats I'm working on one
for 1931-D cents in AU. It's mintage is somewhat higher than the 31-S
but at 4,480,000 that still isn't much for pennies. The 33-D at 6.2
million is another over looked penny when it comes to mint scarcity.



Jerry
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2007  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1931-S is a bit unusual for Lincolns in the fact that it had a very low mintage for the series but the price of a nice AU-MS example is only $100-150. Like the 1950-D nickel, the 1931-S Lincoln was hoarded in large numbers leading to a very large surviving population in relatively high grades. I would bet that it would be next to impossible to find a true circulated G4 31-S It is definitely considered to be a semi-key.
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livingdinasaur's Avatar
United States
1571 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2007  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingdinasaur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am begining othink that the 1932, and 1933 are as scarce as the '09-S-VDB! Of course the '22-missing D, and some of the other keys, or semi-keys are missing, but the dates entirely, in all mints, are the two years I mentioned are the only ones. I have thousands of wheats, but not one '32, or '33. I am putting together rolls of each date and mint , where possible, but a roll of '09S-VDB? I think it will be just one of several "hole-rolls", missing from the date/roll set.
Dick
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19930 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2007  7:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
I am begining othink that the 1932, and 1933 are as scarce as the '09-S-VDB! Of course the '22-missing D, and some of the other keys, or semi-keys are missing, but the dates entirely, in all mints, are the two years I mentioned are the only ones. I have thousands of wheats, but not one '32, or '33. I am putting together rolls of each date and mint , where possible, but a roll of '09S-VDB? I think it will be just one of several "hole-rolls", missing from the date/roll set.
Dick



Indeed they are! The 1933 was a tough coin for me to find in BU as well as the 32. The 1931D is very, very difficult in BU or even circulated, decent condition.
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Valued Member
IHPO8S's Avatar
United States
374 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2007  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IHPO8S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Im the oppisite of most people. I have several 14d from good up to xf. 09s from fine to xf. 1- 09svdb in a pcgs xf40 holder. a couple of 31 s in au, 1 vg 10 pcgs 22 plain strong reverse and 1 22 plain strong reverse in vf 25 pcgs. When I bought the vg 10 I could of got a xf 40 for 800. I payed 450 for vg 10. This was around 2003. I'm kicking my self in the butt for not buying it.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2007  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The thing about the 31S Lincoln Cent is back then people did what they do today with coins. When they see something that may be of value, they hoard as many as possible. The 31S was so hoarded in mosly MS conditions by everyone primarily due to the low mintage. Now the market is full of MS grades of that date and of little value. As to key dates there are so many mysteries as to what may really be a key date. Example: I spent years looking for a 1920D Lincoln Cent in an MS grade. Just not around. Many, many in lesser grades but no MS. Finally a dealer that travels alot and knowing I wanted one, found me one. Is that a KEY DATE coin. No. But where are they? At coin shows I see 09S VDB's all over the place. Many for only five or more hundred dollars. Does that mean it is no longer a key date coin? Availability is one thing. Demand is something else. Amount minted is what was made, not what is or may not be in existance now. Who knows. A key date may end up being a 57 Lincoln Cent. With so many bent on the distruction of the cent, a key date may soon be just a cent, any cent.
Valued Member
chevrolet454ss's Avatar
United States
314 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2007  01:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chevrolet454ss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just carl,

You were talking about so many peaple bent on the distruction on the cent. What do mean by that on what your talking about ? I know the 59 thru 81 cents are worth more melted down in copper scrap metal.

I been hoarding up 1959 thru 1981 cents that are brown, junk that I will not install books or folders. The us mint made billions them and when I go thru bank boxs of 25 face. I find maybe 4 to 5 dollars on those in those 2007 fedboxs. I been taking them and making 25 dollar bricks out them to save intill us mint will let you melt them without going to jail.

I been saving all au/bu red cents out the 59 thru 81 to install in books. All pre 1958 cents I save since they are worth maybe 4 cents each compared to 2 cents each melted down on the 59 thru 81 brown junk pennys. Those 1959 thru 81 junk wore out brown pennys dont have any colletor value other than to hoard copper or wait on us mint to get rid melt ban they have on them.

The coins worth keeping are wheats and the au/bu coins from 59 thru 81.

Since you been collecting for over 60 years and you saw what happened in 1965 thru 1970 when they removing all pre 1964 silver coins from circultion to be hoarded and sold as junk silver and then melted down into silver ingots. Its the samething over again with the 1959 thru 1981 copper pennys. I born in 1971 and never did see in lifetime. So what did you think about them doing that to all silver coins by hoarding them up like that.

My uncle bought over 55 pounds of silver coins in 1965 and kept them all those years. Silver at 14 bucks ounce and 225 per pound its worth around 12500 for hoard of silver in 2007. I dont know how much they are worth or if they been checked for key dates yet. He paid face value for all it in 1965 and pays the bank 50 bucks per year to store them. I never seen them.

Thats main reason I want to hoard up all 59 thru 81 cents since I can get them at face value. If I can I would love put back maybe 3000 dollars face value on them or trade them for junk silver coins to put away as an investment like my uncle did in 1965 with silver coins. Maybe in 5 years copper prices will be 5 to 6 dollars per pound or whatever.

Trust me I dont want destoy any pre 1958 wheats since they already worth more than 2 cents each on copper .

I think its same over again like with silver coins but copper this time.

Chevrolet454ss
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