NGC S-158 Variety Plus Page Includes A Fake

By the way, I AM NOT PICKING ON YOU - just working my way down this thread.

Perhaps all you "ex-perts" should apply for a job. Counterfeits are very easy to detect in hindsight when others have found them first. So I'll be looking out to see the next SOTA fake you for one discover using the photos on ebay.

People not around before TPGS cannot appreciate what has been lost. The TPGs moved the hobby mindset to focus mostly on the keys of a set. It USED to be all dates and MMs had their own values based on mintages and availability. Now, for example, all Mercury dimes except the keys are normally looked at as just junk silver. Much of the fun is gone. Junk silver and a few keys now make a set.

News flash from a collector near death. The coin business in the 1960's was a snake pit. The TPGS have gone a long way to clean it up SO THAT ALL the ignorant collectors/dealers/investors who no absolutely nothing when compared to the members of this community have a degree of protection.

Another flash: virtually ANY circulated non-key or semi key has ALWAYS BEEN JUNK except to the collectors putting a set together in low grades OR most of us who looked through "tip" to fill a hole.

in press releases that made it sound like the TPG had discovered them.

Bet they were so embarrassed they wanted to cover their ...

They didnt do anything, EAC found the fake, EAC told the TPGs about it. The experts in this case are EAC members not TPGs. All the TPGs did was slab fakes. An outside group quality controlled them. So if they cant figure out SOTA fakes, why do they exist? Cant they employee someone to notice this kind of thing?



Note to everyone: IMO and "usage" a brand new SOTA counterfeit is Unknown, not expected, and not discovered by anyone until that one person has a doubt and gets it confirmed. In case no one mentioned this before, many TPGS use outside consultants from EAC, LSCC, TAMS, etc. simply because many of the members of those organizations KNOW MORE than the most of the TPG's who render an opinion.

references:
The owner of Antietam Coin Exchange in Hagerstown, MD is the one who mentiuoned the ASE percentages. He has a very successful LCS and is a large seller on ebay also with name of oozentoo. Check it out for yourself and get it firsthand. He is the one who brought it up a couple times and we talked it over for quite some time.

As to the friend working as a grader before, his name is Ray Wasoski. He was owner of Certified Coins in Erie, PA and later went into dealing with rare coins at a level normally more than regular selling in an LCS. After not being in contact with him for over 20 years, when we touched base again a few years ago, I found out he had become respected in the hobby.




Please go back and re-read the post I made concerning this. Your remark about it is out of context. I am not sure if you just skimmed it or what happened.

And... you are the first person I have met (not saying there are no others) who were collecting back before the TPGs who has not agreed TPGs have focused the hobby onto the keys while relegating the rest to a status of junk silver.

Working in a coin shop back then (granted as a teen), I kept in touch with the general trends/feel of the hobby as it evolved into the TPG era. WHen I returned to the hobby I was shocked some of the things we joked about as people never "falling for" (nothing negative here - that is what we used to say) were factually being implemented (stickers, differing labels bringing different prices for the same coin etc.).



A wise person always is -- no matter what level of expertise that person reaches.

Well alrightee then, guess they better improve their vetting process before they showcase any more fake coins.

Well alrightee then, that's a great idea. Except...at the time they posted the SOTA fake - for all extents and purposes, was an attractive example of a GENUINE coin because fakes struck from that counterfeit die passed all four TPGS authenticators. From what I can see: Each was in a small grade range (VF to XF), each ALSO had different marks from circulation, each had a different color/surface, and one was corroded! Thankfully the fakers got greedy and stuck a bunch of them on ebay.

News Flash: These fakes will be turning up all over once the story w/photos hits Numismatic News and Coin World.

Earle42 said:

The owner of Antietam Coin Exchange in Hagerstown, MD is the one who mentiuoned the ASE percentages. He has a very successful LCS and is a large seller on ebay also with name of oozentoo. Check it out for yourself and get it firsthand. He is the one who brought it up a couple times and we talked it over for quite some time.

Reply: Fine and dandy, What years in the 1980's did he work for PCGS. I don't think they pay by the peace now; howerver, I will find out this week as I'm ONLY GETTING $7.34 an hour no matter how many I grade out there!



GOTCHA..Only kidding but I will find out and post the answer. I'll bet someone here already knows. How about it?

Earle42:

My opinion (note that word) from their past record is they did not abandon the idea, but only shelved it for awhile. Some businessmen want to milk the public for everything they can get. I predict one day there will be adverts such as:
"The new Compu-Grading system is totally impartial and 100% accurate since it eliminates the human-opinion-factor. You can never be perfectly sure your slabbed coins were graded impartially until they bear the new "Compu-Graded" labels. At only 30.00 a slab, you can now sleep peacefully knowing you have the REAL grade."

And just think! In 30 more years we can claim we need to re-slab everything yet again because we have upgraded the Compu-Grade system algorithms for more acuracy. More re-slabbing... and at only 30.00 each!

It's no wonder I never heard of them recently. You had me scared Earle. I learned a few non-proprietary things about that company from a deceased numismatist who helped develop the grading standards to feed into the computer programs.