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Moderator
 United States
54280 Posts |
renposs-0 (0) (Netherlands)232120859945The story... In 1997 we are married and we booked a honeymoon trip for 3 weeks to the West coast of the US. During our visit in San Francisco we bought an old Souvenir book of the city as reminder of this beautiful city. Once we got home the book was put with other memory books on a shelf in the house and we discovered the last pages of the book were hard to open because it seems the pages were stuck. Because we did not want to damage the book we leave the book for what it was. In 2003 we moved to another house were the book disappeared in a carton box. In 2012 we were cleaning the house and by accident a box full of books fell from the closet, the box fell apart and a gold coin was rolling over the floor, no idea where the coin was coming from. Because of the force of the falling box the last pages of the souvenir book were torn apart and it was obvious the coin must have coming out of this book. There was a small hollow where the coin was hidden. I checked were to go to identify the coin. It was obvious this coin could be very rare and should be identified by specialists. Therefore I visited the office of PCGS in Paris were this coin was identified as a genuine gold coin with an added S mint mark. Because of this S mintmark the coin is determined as "Questionable Authenticity" , namely according their story there was only one coin known as a $3 1870-S gold coin, so it was hard to believe there was a second one. Because the coin was hidden in the book for me its unquestionable this is a very rare coin with its own story. After the determination in 2012 by the PCGS the coin and the book were offered in the US at a local auctioneer, unfortunately the reserve price was not meet at that time. According to the owner of the Auction Gallery the golden $3 1870-S is one of just two ever made and is one of the rarest coins in the US History. (see the advertorials) Now 4 years later there is a second chance for a collector to become the new owner of this rare coin. The book will not be auctioned separately. The sale includes the Souvenir book. <hr> So, they walked into a PCGS office in Paris and got an immediate determination that it was an "added mint mark", but now are selling it as if it were genuine.... 2012 article about this coin (if you believe the listing) http://www.coinweek.com/featured-ne...eal-or-fake/The coin shown in this article is not the same coin shown in the ebay listing.  Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here) |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Quote:
Because of this S mintmark the coin is determined as "Questionable Authenticity" PCGS no-grades coins with added MM's as 90 (Counterfeit), not 86 (Authenticity Unverifiable) Not the same coin as the one in the article, as you noted, but they are both fakes! The so-called San Francisco coin planned to be auctioned was found in Georgia, and was offered at $4m raw before being withdrawn for sale -- therefore the ebay listing's statement is also a lie, the coin never went to auction and therefore had no reserve to fail to meet. If you look at CW's article, the Bass specimen is a proof like strike (as it should be, being one of only two coins known to be struck from that die pair) with small "S" mint mark vs. the alleged book specimen which is a circulated non-proof strike with an added-on large "S" mint mark. The ebay listing coin has a large "S" mint mark, and the lack of fine detail indicates that if this is a real 1870 $3 with added MM, it means that someone took a $3k-$5k coin in mid AU and polished/cleaned it after adding the fake MM...  There are other issues with both the CW "San Francisco" coin and the coin in this ebay listing, namely, the position of the right wreath bow loop relative to the 70 in the date, and the thickness and height of the digits in the date itself; the length of the left wreath ribbon end; the over-engraved right wreath wheat stalk...the numeral 3 in 3 Dollars is MUCH thicker on the fakes than on the Bass specimen as well. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1308 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
So should this go over to ebay counterfeit reporting? The $100,000 price for the book rarity is still a huge chunk of money, though pretty far from the original 3 million asked. "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
10/30/2016 12:56 pm
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Valued Member
United States
256 Posts |
Wow,what an elaborate story to sell a fake. Takes some guts to try to sell that story!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7618 Posts |
The coin finder's story does not pass the smell test.
A feed lot full of cattle on a hot Summer day smells better, and is more believable, than this Seller!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5826 Posts |
Why would anyone be foolish enough to sell a coin worth millions for 100 thousand $?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4211 Posts |
And I could take one of Daniel Carr's 1964 Peace or Morgan dollar re-strikes and seal it in the back of some book with maybe the name of the family of someone working at the mint in the mid 60's and cause quite a stir if it was discovered 150 years from now?  Not that I would do that but........  Yes this story seems very fishy to me too. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Ten foot pole theory applied here.
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Moderator
 United States
54280 Posts |
Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here) |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
I remember reading the story ..about finding the coin in the book.
Did not know,all this updated information ..
Thanks for posting
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1609 Posts |
Ah, stories stories stories. Try to make you feel 'good' buying their coins. You should just see the stories that some big sellers have!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts |
I'd like to think people with that kind of money to drop on a coin would know what they're doing.
But there are people with more dollars than sense.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
533 Posts |
It didn't sell. You would think for that kind of money no one would buy it unless it was certified
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Pillar of the Community
United States
624 Posts |
Again with the red flags ebay guy. So it was estimated at $4,000,000 before it was auctioned in Georgia. Then it didn't sell/or was pulled from the auction and you took it back to Europe. Where you took it to PCGS and they said... ehh probably not an 1870 S. Then you listed it on ebay as an 1870 S anyways and the only details you have of the story are the details from the article that you have a bad screenshot of. Also, 0 Feedback from a European Seller with a US coin. So all we can verify is that he might have the actual book the first (possibly faked) was in..? Maybe. |
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Replies: 15 / Views: 2,135 |
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Posted 10/30/2016 08:22 am
