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Key Dates First Or Other Coins To Complete Collection

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jillabean's Avatar
United States
37 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2016  11:37 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jillabean to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello again. I am new to coin collecting (at least as an adult) and I am working on collecting my first set of coins: Peace dollars.

I've been doing a lot of reading and research and I've found that most will advise to obtain key coins first. But I am wondering if that should apply to me as a collector on training wheels. After some reflection, I think that advice might be good for more seasoned collectors but not people like me who are still trying to learn how to grade a coin.

I actually have two key coins in my set (gifts from Christmas) and I only have the 1934-S to go. It's expensive and I hate to cut my teeth on my first purchase on that one. Wouldn't it be better to make a mistake on say, a 1922-P or 1923-P and overpay maybe a little than to overpay a lot on the key coin since it would be a less costly mistake?

Thanks!
Edited by jillabean
12/29/2016 11:39 am
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davec13's Avatar
United States
757 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2016  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davec13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The general idea of keys first is a cost thing. The key dates never seem to go down in value. If you spend years assembling the set a key date that may have been $500 when you started the set may be a $1000 coin when you are finally ready to buy.

As far as making a costly mistake on a key coin. With the amounts of fake key dates even seasoned collectors typically stick to graded key date coins.
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Andrew99's Avatar
United States
1533 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2016  12:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't buy the keys first. Buy some common dates, learn how to grade and what to look for, then buy the keys. If you are collecting something truly rare, you will have to buy what comes on the market, whenever it shows up. If you are collecting common coins, like Walking Liberty halves, I'd buy some dates in the 40's before going after 1921 P, D, or S. I just wouldn't leave the keys for last.

For example, an AU-58 set of Walkers will run you about $50,000, however half that cost will be in three coins dated 1921. Buy those early, but not first.

An AU/BU set of Indian Quarter Eagles will run about $12,000, but $5,000 of that will be the 1911-D. Same idea.
Edited by Andrew99
12/29/2016 1:42 pm
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Earle42's Avatar
United States
10034 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2016  3:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know some people say to buy keys first b/c costs go up. Just to throw another thought into this...

I have done the math with some key dates in the 80s compared with nowadays while figuring in the loss of value the dollar goes through over the years.

Here is a website that seems to corroborate what I have found:
http://www.us-coin-values-advisor.c...or-sale.html

A G 1909 VDB S cent in 1980 was about 200.00 - today the value of that 200.00 is 616.75 according to this website. These two numbers represent the same value. In fact there are are a few in F condition for 712.00 on ebay right now.

I think, but may be wrong, that the above math is why I see some people on CCF say collecting coins is not a hobby that will make money for investors. They keys I have checked into go up in numeric price over years, but the actual value seems to remain about constant.

Whether or not this applies to coins in higher grades, I do not know. I know the hoard of MS CC Morgans that were sold years ago have not really increased in value b/c devaluation of the dollar since the 80s puts them at about same value now.


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moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2016  4:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First, I would like to commend you on both the questions you have been asking and your manner of expressing the particular reason for those questions.

You have already covered an enormous amount of important issues, and I will answer your question posed here first, but I hope you will also consider another important topic that I don't think you've touched on, thus far.

You have already been given excellent advice on checking past sales to determine fair market value for your want list. That is MORE important than the order that you purchase your coins in. Tomorrow you might have an opportunity to buy great common or scarce or rare examples and it would be silly to pass them up simply because they didn't appear in the particular order you had preordained.

The point that I haven't seen covered with you to any great extent is the harm that is done if you buy cleaned coins. Peace dollars, from the most common to the rarest, all suffer cleaning more than many other comparable series.

Additionally, because Peace dollars have very flat design details and large open spaces, particularly on the obverse, dipping can be much harder to detect, especially from photos only.

So I would recommend that you look at as many NGC and PCGS examples as you can, especially in hand, that are in righteous (no problem details free) holders.

While they may, on RARE occasions, miss a cleaned coin, that occurs so infrequently that it should not be a concern.

Even if you are not buying encapsulated coins (although I recommend doing so on coins valued over $150, which is my own personal break point to switch to PCGS or NGC), you can learn what to look for and how a Peace is supposed to look that hasn't been cleaned.

Please show us your buys as you make them. It will help us enjoy your progress.
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United States
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 Posted 12/29/2016  4:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny676767 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I recommend buying commons then the keys. This helps you determine a feel for the series. I have found that graded (slabbed) coins vary greatly. If you buy slabbed keys, which I also think is a good idea, you'll be able to judge the coin by itself rather than by its given grade.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2016  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are certainly arguments both ways, but in general I believe starting with more common dates during, say, the first six months is advisable until you hone your grading skills and, most importantly, are sure this is a series you really love.
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matttheriley's Avatar
United States
1512 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2016  5:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matttheriley to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a suggestion that is often overlooked. Why collect by series, date and mm? Just collect by type! Avoid the whole issue! Just get one REALLY nice example (the nicest you can afford) of each type of coin! I love looking through my type set album and seeing all the different denominations and designs. I get super bored looking in an album and seeing essentially 150 of the same design. Just my thoughts.
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billjones's Avatar
United States
1499 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2016  5:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billjones to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most of the "experts" say to buy the key coins first because they are most expensive and the pieces that most likely to go up in value. I've been a collector for over 55 years, and I generally don't agree with this approach. My strategy is to buy the coins that please me as they come along.

There are two reasons NOT to go crazy over buying the key date and mint mark combinations first.

1. If you are a new collector, you need to learn to grade coins BEFORE you spend serious money. To do that you need to study the grading books and even better find an honest dealer or well versed collector to mentor you.

Even if you are an experienced collector starting a new series require you to learn to grade that series. For example Standing Liberty quarters are hard to grade. I consistently under grade them in the circulated conditions, and I've had a lot of experience with all U.S. coins as a type collector. All of this says, learn to grade BEFORE you commit the money.

2. The assumption concerned the "buy the keys first" philosophy is that the prices are always going up. That is not always the case. I put together a set of Indian cents in the 1960s. In the 1970s every coin in that set lost its value, including key dates like the 1872, 1877 and 1909-S. I could have bought all of those coins for a lot less several years after I bought them.

Later those coins did recover their value, but there was a dip. The same can be true of any series. What goes up does not always stay up, and there are no assurances that prices will ALWAYS go up in the future.

As I new collector I'd advise you to get your feet wet before you spend the big bucks on the keys. I'd also advise you to buy NGC or PCGS certified coins. It's easy to get caught with "1928-P" Peace dollar that has had its mint mark removed. It's also easy to get caught with a counterfeit or a coin that has been cleaned or damaged, especially when you are a beginning collector.

There you have my contrarian opinion.
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jillabean's Avatar
United States
37 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2016  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jillabean to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you everyone. Some more great advice here. This whole website is wonderful.

I really think I will go with the less expensive coins first (I think the 6 month idea is great). I actually plan on going to the local coin store tomorrow since I am off work and browsing. They have a lot of 1922s according to their website, so they will be good to look at and compare grades and such.

Moxking, you bring up a good point on cleaning. My dad (my numismatic inspiration) always told me cleaning coins ruins them. I have to agree. I like to see the age on them. I have no idea what's happened to it, but a few years ago I found a Morgan dollar in a box in my grandmothers house, black. She told me to keep it and I did until is disappeared (I think an ex room mate of mine took it on accident). I remember the date on it too, 1888. It was a pretty good looking coin but black as coal. It wasn't an 1888-O, my dad was still alive then and he told me it wasn't a rare coin. Wish I still had it.

I need to learn how to tell if coins were cleaned or not. I'll add that to learning grades. I think I will learn best by looking at actual coins like you suggested. I can read until I am cross eyed, but I will learn by seeing.

The idea to collect a good sample of each kind is a great idea, but I have a limited scope of coins I am actually interested in. I like Peace dollars, Walking Liberty half dollars, Standing Liberty quarters, and Mercury dimes. Basically silver American coins from around that time in history. I probably won't collect complete sets of all of those. There are just some coins I can't afford. But I will think of a way to collect them, maybe I will just never complete some collections. I might be inclined to pick up one of other types of American coins too as a "bonus" in my collection.

Thanks again everyone! I will post another thread with the pictures of the two coins I got for Christmas to start my collection. I really enjoy just looking at them.
Edited by jillabean
12/29/2016 6:05 pm
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Mark1959's Avatar
7234 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2016  8:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found - DON'T collect a series that includes a coin you will never be able to afford. I completed a Walker and a Franklin Dansco album collection. I am in the midst of collecting graded MS 66 NGC/PCGS Lincoln cents. Of course I'll probably never complete it BUT it is fun!!
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davec13's Avatar
United States
757 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2016  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davec13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I am in the midst of collecting graded MS 66 NGC/PCGS Lincoln cents.

Good luck on that quest. I'm working on a 64RD Lincoln set. I don't think some of the earlier years have ever been graded at a 66, if they have made that grade expect a $50,000+ coin. Here is the first year of the series.
Key-Dates-First-Or-Other-Coins-To-Complete-Collection
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Omegaraptor's Avatar
United States
321 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2016  10:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Omegaraptor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Davec are those slabs all fused together?

I would also have to agree with the Frog here. Get accustomed to collecting the coins in that series, then once you have a decent idea of how to grade and know much about the series, then buy the keys.

Also, beware of overgraded coins. Many TPG key dates in slabs are overgraded.
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Fathead 5's Avatar
United States
294 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2016  02:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fathead 5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Try to buy coins with CAC stickers, if possible.
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Omegaraptor's Avatar
United States
321 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2016  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Omegaraptor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Try to buy coins with CAC stickers, if possible.


This is true, as coins with CAC stickers have more marketability.

However, the most important thing is to buy the coin, not the slab. If a coin has a CAC sticker and you feel it is worthy, buy it.
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davec13's Avatar
United States
757 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2016  2:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davec13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Davec are those slabs all fused together?

No but that would be an awesome idea.
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