Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer 300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin Auctions








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

A Couple Of NGC's - Too High ?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 3,661Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community

Canada
822 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2017  5:53 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Here are 3 NGC graded coins. Do you think they are as good as graded ? I'd like to hear from Canadian ICCS collectors especially who have been doing this for a long time.

1974 nickel dollar MS-63

A-Couple-Of-NGC's---Too-High-?

5 cents 1919 MS-64 (HAHAHAHA)

A-Couple-Of-NGC's---Too-High-?

1919c Nfld. 25 cents AU55

A-Couple-Of-NGC's---Too-High-?

I'd give them;
- AU-50 for the $1 (an ugly AU )
- AU-50 for the 5 cents (just barely)
- VF-30 for the 25 cents (at best)


Bedrock of the Community
Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2017  6:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think we would need sharp pics of the obverses and reverses of each coin to make a judgement.
Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2017  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NGC graders had it in their hands with correct lighting and whatever magnification they might need.

With your alternative of looking at two photos for each coin, and not great photos, and deciding a grade.

Better photos would be necessary for me to doubt NGC's grading decisions, especially by so many points.
Valued Member
Canada
324 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2017  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andy888 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please post better pics of obverse and reverse.
Pillar of the Community
kbbpll's Avatar
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2017  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm neither Canadian, ICCS collector nor "long time" at grading, but as far as what images I've seen on various sites I'd say they're all pretty close in regard to the Sheldon scale. What I really have problems with, particularly from images on a screen, is deciding whether a coin is high AU or low MS. I'd have to trust a TPG over images. Take the 5 cent for example. I can understand where you think it's circulated, but there's so much gunk on the plastic I can't even see the full DEI as well as parts of the crown etc. I've learned to suspect the "tip of the mustache" as a false indicator of wear, and even the lower crown band, as opposed to weak strike. Everything I can see below the neck - collar, garland, ribbon, shoulder, etc - looks good as MS. There are no large distracting marks and the marks I see are tiny on an already tiny coin (let's face it, on my screen your image is probably 20x or more). It does suffer from unattractive blotchy toning but technical graders don't care.

Just my observations.

Edit - I'd have to agree with TerryT that the surfaces of the dollar have that AU "look".
Edited by kbbpll
10/16/2017 10:20 pm
Pillar of the Community
AgCoinAu's Avatar
Canada
3049 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2017  10:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgCoinAu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
it's a bit of a case of apples and oranges though... NGC and ICCS grade differently
Pillar of the Community
Wade's Avatar
Canada
2781 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2017  11:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
NGC and ICCS grade differently


That in itself is part of the problem with TPG's.

But without getting in to the whole TPG debate, all I can say is (colonial tokens only - as that is my experience) NGC tends to be any where from 5-10 points higher (than ICCS & PCGS)in many cases.
Knowing this when purchasing NGC graded tokens can lead to a lot less heartache & headache.

Personally I am not a TPG supporter, but if you are going to grade a Canadian piece my instinct would be to send it to who ever handles the majority of them - and that would be ICCS.

Moderator
Learn More...
SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10459 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2017  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That nickel dollar is most certainly UNC... almost none of them circulated...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

My eBay store
Pillar of the Community
UltraRant's Avatar
Norway
1358 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2017  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UltraRant to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't shame the NGC graders too much, I also appear drunk at work every now and then and my secretary also acts like a monkey with a typewriter from time to time.

(/sarcasm)

Anyway, we all have an off day every now and then. I wouldn't grade the first coin MS, as there's too many dents and the fresh struck luster seems to have disappeared. AU it may get, probably. It also depends on the reverse.

The second coin looks like it may be uncirculated, and it appears there's a small damage on the plastic case. Also, the sport a 5 o'clock makes it easy to think something's weird. I' not sure what it is (metal issue?) but I don't see traces of wear on the obverse.

The third coin is a bit dirty, but otherwise looks in AU condition. It also seems to me that the plastic is scratched there.

I also need pics of the reverses to make a better judgement.
Edited by UltraRant
10/18/2017 2:58 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
822 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2017  3:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SPP, the bank I used back in the 70's and 80's used to save any 50 cents and dollar coins that came in for me. I regularly got circulated 50 cents and had so many I used them to pay for stuff all the time. There were about 0 that were good enough to be called UNC in what I got. The nickel dollars fared much better, but most were not Unc either. Also got a VF 1949 dollar in about 1976.

Here are an 81 and 83 50 cents that are from that time period. These are actually the best of those two years that I kept.

A-Couple-Of-NGC's---Too-High-?
A-Couple-Of-NGC's---Too-High-?

An 82 dollar, best one.

A-Couple-Of-NGC's---Too-High-?
Edited by TerryT
10/18/2017 3:58 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2017  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheCoinHunter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not to oversimplify it, ICCS is field conscious. US TPGs are effigy conscious. ICCS is also very hard on NFLD coins so I would see that coin possibly graded at EF possibly AU50 with ICCS.
Valued Member
Canada
395 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2017  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Talonbat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Honestly I've seen alot of inaccurate grading from NGC but these really don't seem all that bad to me(standard grade difference between ICCS or better). Based on the very limited pictures the dollar is uncirculated, the 5 cent piece could easily be MS64 it is quite beautiful albeit weak strike and the Newfoundland coin is probably the farthest off I would say EF at best I'd be real surprised if ICCS would give it AU50 or above. Mind you in the right light coins always look different.
Pillar of the Community
TheDeductible's Avatar
Canada
851 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2017  11:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheDeductible to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can comment only on the Newfoundland coin, as that is where my interests lie.
Nice coin, but its definitely not AU55. The fields are relatively clean and I don't see much evidence that this coin was circulated for very long before it was tucked away for safe keeping. The problem I think is that the strike is a bit weak. There's no damage at all but the problem is that the coin does not have that exceptional strike clarity that is required for an EF grading (or better) that Newfoundland coins seem to require. There's no detail in the Kings garb or his hair. These things would need to be very detailed and stand out to earn a high grading.
I would consider it VF30. Of course, this is based on looking at the Obverse only.
Pillar of the Community
DEVLEC's Avatar
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2017  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

I'd give them;
- AU-50 for the $1 (an ugly AU )
- AU-50 for the 5 cents (just barely)
- VF-30 for the 25 cents (at best)


Terry T..You should make plans to join us at next year's RCNA Convention grading course ..

Much to be learned as many of us always try to attend these educational seminars at least once a year..

Great experts always on hand to explain why the selected coins get "such and such a grade" ITHO....(in their humble opinion)

They do have a lot to offer, and all that you have to do is sign up..
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2017  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheCoinHunter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It also brings up an interesting point about strike weakness and grading. In your opinion(s), how should it be treated? Should coins be downgraded on strike?
Pillar of the Community
DEVLEC's Avatar
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2017  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would really trust what SPP has to say on this question.


My feeling is that to make it to a very high grade..MS 66 or higher, you would want all of the "bells and whistles" to be checked off to make that grade..

..Better than average strike,..well centered with near perfect rims, near perfect fields with only the softest of contacts showing with a normal and not too high powered loop..

Exception colour also plays a role on silver coins then and now.

..but I'm also "old school" and we only saw perfect coins get a 'gem grade' back then..ie: MS 65.

Back then a 63 was an amazing coin with near flawless surfaces...but not anymore..(grade creed is real..)

I never really can remember seeing 66's until more recently..

So right now, I've reset the bar to reflect what we now see on a daily basis..
  Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 3,661Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.41 seconds to rattle this change. Forums