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1652 New England 3 Pence?

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thq's Avatar
United States
3347 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2024  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a 1794 V-4 Half Dime that I bought for a reasonable price after it came back to a dealer in an NGC bodybag unauthenticated. I have shown it to other dealers, who believe it is genuine. That is good enough for me.

For the right price this three pence would be good enough for me too. If NGC can't authenticate a US regular issue coin, it's understandable that they (or anyone else) would have trouble with a colonial with no provenance.

"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
04/01/2024 7:58 pm
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Slerk's Avatar
Russian Federation
1557 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2024  11:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slerk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Slerk: I'm puzzled about "the Deal" thing, but I can assure you that nothing nefarious is associated with the vetting process.

I talked about the message above. If a person contacted Larsjan and bought his coin without authentication, this is what I call a "silent deal". No one except the seller and buyer knows the information. I would like to see any statements from larsjan, the grading company or the numismatic media. I believe that even if a coin is fake, it is a good fake and people should know what it is.
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westernsky's Avatar
United States
7652 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2024  12:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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GMS5's Avatar
Canada
1532 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2024  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GMS5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rest in Peace
Oldgrouchyguy's Avatar
United States
632 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2024  12:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldgrouchyguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I did talk to the person who had it recently in hand, for authentication, so if the OP has sold it, it would have had to have been a very recent activity.
For a What It's Worth Perspective: I worked in a Massachusetts North Shore town, settled in the Pilgrim Decade, in a shop that sold metal detectors. It took a few years before the dedicated cadre of detectorists would trust me; when that happened I was shown a couple of handfuls of recovered Massachusetts Silver coins, including a surprising amount of cut pieces. No New England pieces, no Willows (although one day I did buy a Willow Shilling that was found in the floorboards of the oldest house in Dennis). So, just speculating on that tiny sample, it would seem that those issues were probably long gone in circulation by the 1670's. What we do know, is that at least one NE issue was in England in 1652. I know that because I owned a 1652-3 edition of an English book on coins, in which the author described a curious plain silver coin marked "XII" on one side, and "NE" on the other, he contemplating that it was a Norwich(e) Shilling of some sort.
Edited by Oldgrouchyguy
04/06/2024 12:45 am
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Dearborn's Avatar
United States
99100 Posts
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tyr4nt's Avatar
United States
78 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2024  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tyr4nt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The glorious advantage of getting back into coin collecting now is enjoying all 31 pages of this sub, drama and all, today. How exciting! Whether or not we see a resolution to this story, I'm subbed! :)
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 04/08/2024  5:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As far as I am concerned this entire thread is nothing but clickbait and should be locked. In the event OP ever shows up again and has actual information other than a wild goose chase, a new thread could be started.

I am and shall remain in the camp that "larsjan" is an entirely fraudulent poster until proven otherwise. The number of people who willingly accept this entire story based on word-of-mouth without any actual evidence that this coin even exists is somewhat surprising.


Quote:
I know that because I owned a 1652-3 edition of an English book on coins, in which the author described a curious plain silver coin marked "XII" on one side, and "NE" on the other, he contemplating that it was a Norwich(e) Shilling of some sort.


I would be interested to know the title of this book and/or its authorship if you remember.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
04/09/2024 12:48 am
Rest in Peace
Oldgrouchyguy's Avatar
United States
632 Posts
 Posted 04/08/2024  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldgrouchyguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh, Paralyse, I'm sorry that you can't take me "at Face Value". I did talk to the person, so if you want to call me a liar that's up to you, but it's an incorrect assumption that I did not.
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2024  12:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That wasn't directed at you. No problems here. I reworded my reply to make it a little more clear.

I am definitely interested, though, if you happen to remember the name or author of the book you refer to, because the early NE coinage is one of my numismatic/collecting interests (I can never own one, so I can only read about them!)
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
04/09/2024 12:47 am
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Slerk's Avatar
Russian Federation
1557 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2024  12:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slerk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
paralyse,"what? Do you think that this whole story is made up? That there is no coin and no "larsjan"?
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jacrispies's Avatar
United States
3848 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2024  01:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This thread was constructed by those who built the pyramids... ALIENS!!!

I did some digging, and all I can say is we could hear a result in couple months.
Suffering from bust half fever.
Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955
Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2024  01:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jacrispies added a reply as I was writing this, didn't see it... it adds credence.

RE: what Grouchy said... Putting 2 + 2 together, I'm quite sure I happen to know the numismatic acquaintance he referenced (I didn't realize he had left there, was actually supposed to run some material through him that I've procrastinated on - but in checking that indeed seems to be the case).

The person I think grouchy was referring to definitely has the expertise to be involved with vetting this piece. Do his first and last names end with the same letter, grouchy? (I tried messaging you directly, but your acct. doesn't accept). And anybody else, if you happen to think you know who he's (I'm) talking about... let's not say, yes? Rather than making gossip here or outing someone, my point is to show that at least one person who's not a storyteller thinks it sounds like there's something here besides made-up trolling.

I'll also say that if that's true, it's clearly being discussed and is probably the source of internal debate amongst people who punch at a much higher weight class than us amateur yo-yos on an online forum. There are controversial antiques, art pieces, etc. that get debated for decades or even centuries... and there are also such pieces that sometimes never see the light of day. Deal with it.

ALSO understand... WHOOOOO exactly is going to introduce this piece to the world via press release or similar, even IF gets authenticated authoritatively, if it isn't certified by P or N and/or auctioned publicly?
Edited by realeswatcher
04/09/2024 02:21 am
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GMS5's Avatar
Canada
1532 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2024  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GMS5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This thread is now 4 years and one month old.
I would hazard a guess that this coin would have been authenticated by now no?
An update from the elusive Larsjan would be greatly appreciated.
Valued Member
larsjan's Avatar
Netherlands
53 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2024  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add larsjan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dear all,

Here I would like to give a sign of life and report that the story is not over yet.
Please know that I immediately read every message posted in this topic and that I am grateful for all the support I still receive after all these years.
Unfortunately, I still can't give you an update because I promised not to release any more information.
Believe me I will do that as soon as I can, the story started here with you, and however it turns out, it will end here.
The research takes a lot of time, and that is a good thing, it means that it is done very thoroughly.

Thank you all so much and I hope to be able to report something soon.
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