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1869 Three Cent Coin You Vs. NGC (Old Fatty Holder)

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Slider23's Avatar
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 Posted 06/26/2021  4:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rusted dies and the coin appears MS and very few marks. MS64
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Ty2020b's Avatar
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 Posted 06/26/2021  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm stumped.

Straight grade, not an off metal, to my knowledge there was no patterns struck with this obverse, and I just can't see this being a proof.

Guessing it went one extreme or the other grade wise, as low as XF, as high as MS65, MS66 if the extreme toning happened post slabbing. I can't think of any other possibilities.

oh the suspense.
Edited by Ty2020b
06/26/2021 6:35 pm
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 06/26/2021  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to admit that I've never seen an 1869 silver trey that looks like this coin.

I know there are several pattern strikes for the 1869 TCN, but I've never seen an 1869 silver trey pattern. IIRC, the mint sold used dies for scrap iron during this period, and some of them were used to strike creative mules and restrikes. I vaguely remember the Treasury Department seizing and destroying dies from an auction back in the day. Could this be a private restrike or even a mint restrike from rusted dies?

You have me stumped here, my friend.
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westcoin's Avatar
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 Posted 06/27/2021  03:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suppose it's time for the big reveal. Congrats to...

Quote:

Bump111 Is this an off-metal strike? The devices look oddly different from most I've seen, almost like they struck up differently.


you were the first to consider it on off metal strike.

It is indeed struck in copper. That is why it looks so strange, patina is too dark for a silver coin.

My first hint was the title I never said it was a Three Cent "Silver" only a Three Cent coin.

another round of congrats to:


Quote:
mikev50i am thinking proof in poor condition---


The coin is graded straight PR63 mikev50 was the first to think Proof, I thought it pretty obvious from the strength of the strike alone, at least on the obverse.


1869-Three-Cent-Coin-You-Vs.-NGC-Old-Fatty-Holder

1869 Three Cent Silver in Copper
Judd-680, PR63 Brown

1869 3C Three Cent Judd-680, Pollock-759, Rarity: High R.7

PR63BN NGC #635066-015

A dies trial striking of the 1869 Three Cent Silver. Struck in copper with a plain edge and in medallic alignment. While traditionally termed a dies trial piece, these pieces were actually struck by the Mint for sale to collectors. Examples were struck in copper, nickel, and aluminum. Each metal has approximately the same number of survivors, around a half-dozen. Deep blue-gray patina covers each side. Close examination shows a few small contact marks.

From The Collection of William Rau

Heritage Auction #1274 April, 27, 2018 Sold for $5,520.00

Finest known is a PCGS PR64RB (shown below).
1869-Three-Cent-Coin-You-Vs.-NGC-Old-Fatty-Holder
The PCGS coin in 64RB is much nicer looking than the example in PR63 from NGC.

Big thank you to all for guessing and playing along, this was a totally different coin that you probably wouldn't stumble across on purpose. I found it when looking for another coin and scrolled past it in an auction, where it caught my eye, enough to go back looking for it after I had closed the page, I had to go into my browser history because I couldn't get it out of my mind, in just how unusual it looked.

Oh and GrapeCollects You got the closet grade with PR62 in a last minute change.

fortcollins: I too had never seen one of these 3CS patterns before, and I look at every Two Cent pattern piece and die trial I can, seen a ton of 3CN and nickel patterns.

It didn't really surprise me, but it was just so different looking I was very intrigued by it, enough to go through my browser history and go find the coin on the auction page again the next day, then go look it up in a few of my pattern reference books, not much out there on it really. I just found an Aluminum example that sold in January this year: https://coins.HA.com/itm/patterns/1.../1326-3156.s
That one brought $10K+ of course it's a Bob Simpson coin too.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
06/27/2021 04:16 am
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Bump111's Avatar
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 Posted 06/27/2021  3:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bump111 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unusual piece. Thank you for the interesting discussion and follow up.
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 06/27/2021  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely fascinating! Thank you for sharing this critter with us!
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GrapeCollects's Avatar
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8938 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2021  12:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very cool! I think 5k for the 64RB is actually a little low. There aren't many 3CS patterns as far as I can tell, and this one has excellent eye appeal.
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westcoin's Avatar
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 Posted 06/28/2021  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grape, the $5K was for the NGC example I posted originally, the PCGS PR64RB went for $6325.00 but if you want it's coming up again for sale at auction at the ANA sale by Heritage on August. It's also another Simpson coin, I'm just guessing, but Bet it sell for north of $8,000 this time around.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns/1...1333-11085.s

Also just found an 1873 Three Cent Silver (Copper) pattern in the same sale.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns/1...1333-11128.s

Even Heritage mentions how rare these are as this is only the second Judd 1262 they have handled in over 30 years!
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
06/28/2021 8:16 pm
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Ty2020b's Avatar
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 Posted 06/28/2021  8:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well as always @westcoin, thanks for the lesson. I was wayyy off. Had no idea these patterns existed. In my defense, never been a huge fan of the 3CS, but so find these quite interesting.

IMO, the 3CS would have been a much nicer coin had they made it out of copper and had it roughly the same size as the 2 cent. Obviously that would not have worked at the time, but this design would really work well on a larger scale with a bit more relief.
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