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 Replies: 17 / Views: 3,576 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1751 Posts |
I have taken a 5 year break in coin and bullion collecting. I'm shocked that a wide variety of bullion coins in Canada are close to a $10'premium! Some are maple, lunar series coin with limited mintages. A few are newer mints I'm not familiar with like East India. Are people still stacking the dips now, even with higher premiums. I'm interested in peoples experiences. This year I bought 2 orders from Silver Gold Bull, I usually get the coins on discount temporarily. Unless the one I want is within a dollar or two.
Ten years ago when I joined the forum many people talked about semi numismatic bullion, with lower mintages where they would pay much higher premiums. It was like a middle ground between bullion and collector proof coins. I appreciate collectors updating current trends, especially with premiums! Thanks
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Moderator
 United States
54282 Posts |
A) Demand
B) $8-$11 ain't what it used to be
Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here) |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5394 Posts |
C : shows the true disconnect on paper silver( SPOT) vs actual Bullion Coin . Try buying 90 per cent and Morgan / Peace dollars , you will be floored ! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
Quote:C : shows the true disconnect on paper silver( SPOT) vs actual Bullion Coin . Try buying 90 per cent and Morgan / Peace dollars , you will be floored ! It's insane. For 90%, the cheapest I have seen the last few weeks is 21x face. That's roughly $6 over spot currently and there isn't much available at that price. Most is 22x ($30.77/ounce) and above. Morgan and Peace dollars seem to be $30 and up even for circulated examples. I have never seen anything like this and I am sure that applies to most people these days. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
533 Posts |
90% is about 21-22x spot. I buy every week and ignore the ups and downs basically just spend $200-$500 a week. I bought a monster box of ASE about two months back and it was $8 per coin over spot |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
Quote:90% is about 21-22x spot. I buy every week and ignore the ups and downs basically just spend $200-$500 a week. I bought a monster box of ASE about two months back and it was $8 per coin over spot That's the smart approach (ie dollar cost averaging). I see on other forums where people complain about the ups and downs or try to time the market. If you're a stacker, just keep adding some as you can. You're not losing when the dips happen as you still have the same amount of silver. When the dips happen, I may buy a little more but it's not a situation where I am holding out hoping for the spot price to go down. I am trying to add a little here and there. I exceeded my goal for 2021 late in the year and have blown past my goal for 2022 already. I have a nice head start on 2023 and have goals set for each year through 2035 (for where I want to be for each type of silver - dimes, quarters, halves, dollars, 1 oz bars/rounds, 2 oz bars/rounds, 5 oz bars/rounds, and 10 oz bars/rounds). |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4333 Posts |
Spot is the paper contract price, a useless reference. The higher prices are simply the true physical price.
Spot price today is cheaper than ten years ago not even considering inflation.
When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
Dirt fishing since '72
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2235 Posts |
Wholesalers and dealers use the paper spot price then add their premium. Yes spot prices were much higher ten years ago, but premiums I assume were lower. I think many dedicated stackers buy some every year no matter what prices have been. If silver ever goes crazy like $100 oz I don't know how many would buy then.
Edited by livingwater
04/28/2022 3:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5241 Posts |
My LCS pays well over spot for silver maples, which he buys from a wholesaler. He is not big enough to buy directly from the mint.
His profit is about 6%.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4333 Posts |
Last checked, Provident was paying 27% over spot for ASE's. When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
Dirt fishing since '72
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Pillar of the Community
United States
600 Posts |
Spot prices were higher 10 years ago, but that's the only period in the past 30 years where that's been true. Most would do well to sell off during these highs (those looking for profit), but most just keep stacking (for use during the inevitable zombie apocalypse). However, with that said, I don't see a big drop in silver prices on the horizon since it was undervalued in 2019 based on inflation/CPI over the past 30 years. I expect we will see it hover in the current range (with temporary peaks and dips) for the next several years.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1751 Posts |
Thanks for all the wonderful responses. I have been reading threads since making my post and it seems like since 2020 premiums have been higher and a topic of conversation, especially since they're higher than $4-$5. I have 2 places in Canada I find have a good selection, a bullion dealer SGB which is 6 hrs away and I have made 2 previous orders this year. The other I was a steady customer since my early days of buying mint proof coins and I'm impressed by how they've grew since 2012, when I would make random orders I wished I lived in Toronto so I could oogle and drool over their coins in person. I'm rather new to just stacking as a hedge against inflation! I have been doing a lot of research. Including about how to garden and do pickling. So it's just not just one area of preparation for the coming few rough years!
I still need answers regarding if collectors are still interested in the low mintage semi numismatic bullion coins. I've been reading on silver stackers, that all bullion coins are now prone to developing milk spots, just not the Canadian maple. How true are people finding this? As my coins are stored where I have no access. As the room has become a storage area, which was supposed to be temporarily. Now that I need back surgery, I can't clear it out on my own and finding help is challenging! So I have no idea of how my coins are doing stored in trunks. I do miss looking at my coins!!
So if people can weigh in on the topic of it it's worth it to buy low mintage bullion. I've noticed a lot of popular movie and cartoon themes with mintage from 10,000-30,000. So if bullion is prone to milk spots, especially from British and Australian mints I'm curious. I read somewhere that Maples a couple of years ago have conquered milk spots, is this true. I find the radial lines tend to distract from the wonderful designs some coins! I'm moving away from expensive proof coins as I can buy more bullion with cool designs now and stack as a hedge, fulfillling too purposes! So please add your opinion as I do enjoy a good discussion with a variety of views.,I respect pacific coin a lot with his experience.
I recently had a rude awakening, I had bought a small RESP in 2000 for my son. We moved in 2004 and both of us had gone through 5 orthopaedic surgeries since moving. So I lost the documents to the fund I was with. I had been making small monthly contributions through my bank monthly. I finally through my bank tracked down which fund in 2020. So when I was mailed my yearly statement, in that time, I actually lost $3,000 of my principal. Now my son isn't interested in post secondary I'm also losing any interest my $6100 made in 21 years, so much for compounding interest. I probably would have been better off buying 1-2 bullion coins monthly. Only I didn't know about stacking until 2012. I've read horror stories about people losing $30k for closing the account prior to maturity, due to their high management fees and penalties for pulling out early. So nothing is without risks and I'm in for the long haul.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I have always had a problem with semi numismatic bullion.
From my experience and with that of others, dealers only buy back at bullion pricing.
Go with strictly bullion or with strictly numismatic.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
Quote:
I have always had a problem with semi numismatic bullion.
From my experience and with that of others, dealers only buy back at bullion pricing. I talked to a guy a few years back that was trying to sell some of these to the biggest coin shop in town. They were only offered the going rate for 90% for what were probably AU-58 to MS-61 or MS-62 Washington quarters. He said he told the dealer, ok I will be back after I take a hammer and beat these coins up a bit. The dealer told him "NO! Don't do that!" The dealer pretty much outed himself as being dishonest as we all know they would have put those coins in 2x2s and sold them as numismatics. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2235 Posts |
@pocket change 50, You will get varying opinons on what is best to stack or collect and about investing. It's important to learn as much as one can so better decisions are made. It's important to buy from dealers and sellers you trust so you don't pay high prices or buy fakes.
For stacking, I look for the best prices and have a mix of government coins like Silver Maple Leafs and American Silver Eagles, generic bars/rounds and 1964/older 90% silver USA coins commonly called junk. I think in Canada some stack the older circulated silver coins. Some like to have their bullion coins graded/slabbed. There is a big market for graded/slabbed American Silver Eagles. I personally only have a few because for the cost of grading/slabbing I can buy more silver. But to each their own. We all stack, collect what we enjoy.
Coin collecting as you know is different than just stacking precious metals. You are looking for low mintage, rare, varieties, errors, high grade, theme bullion, etc. and you hope they appreciate in value in the future. This requires a lot more knowledge than just stacking.
From what I know, the rare coins market is good. Expensive coins are selling well at major auctions. These are for the wealthy, not average salary collectors like me. There is a big market for collectable coins, proof, low mintage special designs, etc. But if you are concerned about future bad economic times, in my opinion it's better to just stack than buy collectable coins. In an economic collapse like the Great Depression and you need to sell some of your collection, I think you'll have a better chance of getting your money back by stacking than collectable coins, just my opinion.
I don't know much about RESP, but here in USA we have college savings plans called 529. They are a good way to save, tax exempt unless you pull money out for something other than what is allowed. I have 529 plans for my grandkids. 529 plans are offered by many banks and states. Some have high fees with limited investment choices. The state I live in has one of the best rated 529 plans, low fees, many investment options to choose from.
I'm sorry for your health issues. Laws/rules for retirement plans like IRA, 401K, RESP, 529 can be different. Some allow for pulling money out early for health bills, emergencies, buying a first house etc. So a person needs to know what is allowed or if there is a tax penalty for taking money out early.
Like coin collecting, people should learn about investing. Some financial institutions charge higher fees, load fees, can have risky investments, etc. Years ago I bought several financial books to learn. One was Mutual Funds for Dummies. I have two stepsons who have retirement plans through their work. But they don't have a clue about them. They don't care about the difference between a bond fund, stock fund. I tried to get them to open Roth IRAs through one of the major mutual fund companies, a great way to invest. They each make about 75K and can afford to put $50 or $100/month in a Roth IRA. I offered to give them each $200 to save up to open a Roth. Nope. They turned me down. They spend their extra cash on entertainment.
Edited by livingwater
04/29/2022 09:34 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
600 Posts |
1. I'm very sorry to hear about your health issues. I know how it is, as I'm a cancer patient doing chemo (one of the reasons I have time to sit around the house all day on CCF). Being unwell sucks.
2. I have zero interest in semi-numismatic bullion. I don't see any value there.
3. I'm surprised to hear about your RESP losing value. The overall stock market has tripled since 2000, so I'm not sure how they managed to lose money. There are so many no-load, low-fee funds out there. Long term, stock have always outperformed other investments, although I admit I pulled back last year in anticipation of a market correction.
I hope your health (and mine) improves over the year!!
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,576 |
Posted 04/27/2022 4:55 pm
