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Interesting Consecutive Errors Found On 2017A $20 Uncirculated Stack

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 Posted 06/15/2023  10:31 pm Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add datadragon to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have found, as I'm sure others have at times, different ink type marks on bills and always wondered if they were from the BEP but you could never prove it. Well this time I can! An uncirculated stack of $20s, serials PE16416597G did not contain the error which started at PE16416601 to PE16416610G, then strangely stopped at PE16416611G. An interesting fun find - wish it was a more serious error that would make it more valuable in a stack like that. Those marks actually can be seen on both the top and bottom of the notes when held together also so not sure what they are but they got onto the bills instead.

Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Edited by datadragon
06/15/2023 10:35 pm
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SteveInTampa's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2023  04:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveInTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Curious find, and fairly consistent.
I could see the machine at the BEP that advances sheets making these marks and I could also imagine an ATM machine doing the same.
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2023  07:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

My first thought was dirty rollers at the BEP.
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 Posted 06/16/2023  08:26 am  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Curious find, and fairly consistent.
I could see the machine at the BEP that advances sheets making these marks and I could also imagine an ATM machine doing the same.

My first thought was dirty rollers at the BEP


Thanks. Yes I normally thought at first these might be typical atm or similar dispensing machine type marks but these are uncirculated and I found it strange that serials 16416597 (and earlier) up to PE16416600 did not have them, PE16416601 to PE16416610 had them then PE16416611G and beyond did not in the stack which does not suggest a dirty atm roller as those wouldnt be cleaned right away I would imagine.

They can be seen on both the top and bottom of the bills when held together on the edges only normally so check your bills if you see them there, and somehow is not on the edge but on the bill. Hard to see with just a couple bills only.

Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack

Previously I had found another set (which is in my storage) of uncirculated looking $1 that has similar marks in that general location on the reverse bottom, I believe 2017 series off the top of my head (why I kept them since they were uncirculated). But in that case I only had 4 bills I was given from a new stack so no way to see if it continued.
Edited by datadragon
06/16/2023 10:23 am
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Morgans Dad's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2023  10:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very Observant Eyes,

David, The Ink Markings do Look like Feeder Print marks, Or Some type of Finger Marks from machines that Carry along the Bills, Post Cutting, ....

Thanks for Posting These......
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 Posted 06/16/2023  11:36 am  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Very Observant Eyes,

David, The Ink Markings do Look like Feeder Print marks, Or Some type of Finger Marks from machines that Carry along the Bills, Post Cutting, ....


Yes, but strange isn't it that only 10 of the notes in a row have them while both just before and after those notes did not and are consecutive serials which made me think it wasnt a local bank machine/counter. I guess if others find them also, its even more likely to be BEP rather than bank since that would eliminate its just the specific bank these came from. They are normally on the edges only I see on both the top and bottom in this case, and shouldnt be on the reverse of the bills. They may be on other denominations also because I found the 2017 $1 with them again on the back in the same area. Those may be the same so I'll have to post those when I get them out of storage eventually. I am not currently yet familiar with some of the new BEP machinery since 2013 and how that might even create them. My thoughts also was that there is no added value unless it can be proven to be errors from the BEP and even then not sure of interest so I also thought it more a curiosity and was in my junk drawer I've slowly started to clean.
Edited by datadragon
06/16/2023 11:38 am
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 Posted 06/17/2023  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoolBreeze to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The marks appear pretty close together. I vote for machine counter. When you insert a stack of new bills that riffle through notes like playing cards they are held by two holding prongs very similar to these marks. These machines get used a lot when new bills come in because the new bills stick together and they need to run through the separator. Ink could very easily come off onto these holding prongs. Rollers for the BEP would leave marks on the back side of the notes but not at the bottom of each note. These notes were being held at the bottom just like those old style machine counters that riffle through notes in a rolodex like fashion.
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 Posted 06/17/2023  11:00 pm  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The marks appear pretty close together. I vote for machine counter. When you insert a stack of new bills that riffle through notes like playing cards they are held by two holding prongs very similar to these marks. These machines get used a lot when new bills come in because the new bills stick together and they need to run through the separator. Ink could very easily come off onto these holding prongs. Rollers for the BEP would leave marks on the back side of the notes but not at the bottom of each note. These notes were being held at the bottom just like those old style machine counters that riffle through notes in a rolodex like fashion.


Interesting, CoolBreeze. They are actually on both the top and bottom, but strangely only 10 in the stack had them on the back of the bills, but not the others just before those 10 and also stopped after those 10. They were all consecutive serial numbers so didnt come from different batches. I will eventually add the 2017 $1s that had them, but not sure if they normally have the marks on the top or bottom from the BEP if someone has a sealed 2017 or 2017a stack could check. Maybe also someone sees them on other bills. There is new equipment since 2013 the BEP uses which is different than before and not yet familiar with the roller functions related to this.

Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Edited by datadragon
06/17/2023 11:03 pm
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 Posted 06/18/2023  02:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
greetings, just wanted to bring up a fun fact/question regarding these consecutive serial # notes, could one consider this a type of
"Progression" as the term is used in "error coin progressions" being we have a set of serial #`s of before anomaly, during the anomaly and then after the anomaly? Just thought it an interesting thought.
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 Posted 06/18/2023  02:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveInTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What you're describing, @Dutch-Tigger, is deemed desirable by error note collectors. Many error note collectors love acquiring the note before and after the error, when possible.

The question here, I believe, is trying to determine if the markings were applied at the BEP during production, which would make them a legitimate error, although minor.

Or, if the markings were made Post-BEP, which would disqualify them as true error notes.
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 Posted 06/18/2023  08:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for that SteveInTampa
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 Posted 06/18/2023  11:06 am  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Dutch-Tigger, Yes a great answer from SteveinTampa. In this case we can indeed show a progression from before the error (or anomaly if not BEP), with the error, then the error ending so that was unusual as most of the time you would just find say 1 or 2 bills with the marks on them thinking it might be an error, and why I had pulled it and shared. As Steve mentioned we dont yet know if this is from the BEP or perhaps a machine counter and eventually perhaps further finds or info might help to determine that possibly. I also had thought like steve so far it would typically be a minor error, something you might possibly sell individual notes with them on ebay for a small amount over face if not keeping in a personal collection, but only if it is from the BEP. As a progression even with a minor error perhaps would be far more desirable to a collector and worth more, but on $20s instead of $1 or $5 would likely be hard to sell with a minor error in my opinion since it involves a minimum of 12 bills together to show the progression ($240). If there was some type of major error or serial number error in a progression that the bill alone is known to be of higher value would be more likely to be worthwhile imo.
Edited by datadragon
06/18/2023 11:08 am
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 Posted 06/18/2023  12:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@datadragon, That is a mouth full and is just the kind of information I do desire and appreciate, it is one of my interest
"progression" due to Error coin progressions are surprisingly hard to verify. I have some coins that have a verifiable progression through their Die markers but none of the examples above Two coins. Thanks again for the intriguing dissertation on this event on these notes.
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 Posted 06/18/2023  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes error coin progressions dont come up often as you would have to have something like a mint sewn bag of them, there was this one below posted (not mine) regarding the strike through on 2020 american samoa bat quarters which shows a progression you may like. Definately something to hold onto when the error itself has value.

Interesting-Consecutive-Errors-Found-On-2017A-$20-Uncirculated-Stack
Edited by datadragon
06/18/2023 12:43 pm
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 Posted 06/18/2023  1:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutch-Tigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WOW yeah, that is something and most of mine did come from original mint bags my father and I won an auction at a estate sale for the coin hoard. 1960-D, 62-D and 63-D pennies was just some of the haul. 15 bags total, my father had me go through them at my own pace but was certainty a Penny Purgatory for a long time lol. This is how I accumulated such a large collection of RPM`s especially the 1960-D`s witch I am now collecting the small group I don`t have to achieve a complete set of 1960-D RPM`s. well I`ll post some of them on another post as not to hijack this fellows anymore than we have.
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