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Did The Mint Package & Sell Eagle Bullion Coins As "Uncirculated " ?

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cptbilly's Avatar
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 Posted 09/18/2024  6:46 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add cptbilly to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
As mentioned in another thread, I'm turning my efforts towards adding to my ASE collection. A recent addition, a 1997 Bullion example --
Did-The-Mint-Package-&-Sell-Eagle-Bullion-Coins-As- Did-The-Mint-Package-&-Sell-Eagle-Bullion-Coins-As-
-- included this COA:
Did-The-Mint-Package-&-Sell-Eagle-Bullion-Coins-As- Did-The-Mint-Package-&-Sell-Eagle-Bullion-Coins-As-
Did-The-Mint-Package-&-Sell-Eagle-Bullion-Coins-As-
and was shipped with a green outer box and green velvet clamshell holder:
Did-The-Mint-Package-&-Sell-Eagle-Bullion-Coins-As- Did-The-Mint-Package-&-Sell-Eagle-Bullion-Coins-As-
While I prefer ungraded examples of ASE's and Commems I purchase to come w/ OGP/COA -- when available -- I did not expect to find ASE bullion examples packaged as shown above, hence the Topic question. Are there additional years this was done ?
I've spent nearly 90 minutes trying to find an internet resource (including the CCF ) that might address this arcane aspect of collecting ASE's. Used copies of John Mercanti 's American Silver Eagles can be had for cheap from numerous on-line booksellers; would that have included the answer ? And should I pick up the Mercanti reference anyway ?
As always, thank you in advance for your comments and suggestions. Thanks for looking.
Edited by cptbilly
09/19/2024 10:09 am
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 Posted 09/18/2024  8:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The US Mint began to sell burnished/Uncirculated Silver Eagles directly to the public in 2008; these coins have a "W" mint mark. Your 1997 coin was struck in Philadelphia ( no mint mark); it was unavailable in Uncirculated directly from the Mint - Proof versions, however, were available.

I believe the 1997 Eagle you have shown is a regular bullion/Uncirculated Eagle placed into special packaging by an after-market/third party to resemble US Mint packaging.


Dedicated collectors of the Silver Eagle series might be able to offer additional information.



Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
Edited by commems
09/18/2024 8:11 pm
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 Posted 09/18/2024  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What you have is a bullion ASE in aftermarket packaging. The mint does not sell the bullion ASE directly to consumers, only a select group of dealers are allowed to purchase them directly. Your coin is just bullion in a pretty package.

There are "burnished" which look like uncirculated but have a mint mark (w), these are sold directly to consumers but at a much higher price than bullion. Bullion coins have been made at San Francisco, West Point and Philadelphia none have mint mark, you will see slabbed ASE with "Emergency minted at .", the way these are know is by the serial number of the monster box. Dealers file FOIA requests to find out if the coins are minted other than Philadelphia but they are indistinguishable from ones minted at Philadelphia.
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 Posted 09/18/2024  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Check Gilly's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Gilly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let me see if I can get you straight on a lot of things.
Mainly the terms being tossed around can get really confusing if you don't know the proper terminology and how to understand what generally can be considered slang.
Bullion, has no mint mark. Is NOT available from the US Mint in any way shape or form. It's only able to be purchased by buyers in the authorized purchasers program, and even then only in boxes of 500 (monster boxes). The buyer can then sell as they please, individual or the whole box. The best bet is to refer to bullion as "bullion".
The slang is to call them uncirculated. No ASE is intended to be "circulated", even though they have a $1 denomination. So it's a bit of a misnomer. But hold on tight, it gets worse.
In 2006 (the 20th anniversary of the American Eagle program), a new collector version was added to the program (both silver and gold eagles), the "Uncirculated" silver and gold eagle. Though they are handled better, etc than the bullion version, they have generally the same appearance as the bullion, which is another slang term you see, "burnished". The "uncirculated" term becomes the most confusing part as well as burnished.
The "Uncirculated" the true US Mint "Uncirculated" that was released in 2006 DOES have a mint mark, and IS released to the public individually the same way the Proof version is. That is key to know. Mint mark and sold individual in a capsule, box, and COA, just like a Proof.
Added note the Proof wasn't made in 2009, the Mint was having programs keeping up with demand because the economy was in the dumpster and people were investing in metals.
The true Uncirculated wasn't made in 2009 or 2010.
The one you have in the green box wasn't issued by the mint that way, someone after the mint put it in the capsule, box, and provided the COA, the only thing from the mint is the ASE itself.
The comment about the different mints.
As I said no bullion has a mint mark, this has nothing to do with Philadelphia coins generally not having a mint mark.
From the start the San Francisco mint was making all ASEs. Within a couple years West Point started producing ASE bullion, actually taking over all bullion by 1999. Since then West Point has made most ASE bullion. San Francisco and Philly have made some, not many,though. At different times, all 3 of these have made proof versions. Denver has never produced a silver eagle.
All "Uncirculated" have all been West Point, except for a special 5 coin 25th anniversary set in 2011 which has a San Francisco Uncirculated, and that was the only way to get that one.

Well as usual I've gone on and on, hope this helps and ask if you have other questions.
I stick to OGP silver eagles also, I don't get in to the graded stuff.
Edited by Gilly
09/18/2024 10:10 pm
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 Posted 09/18/2024  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Check Gilly's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Gilly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Your 1997 coin was struck in Philadelphia ( no mint mark); it was unavailable in Uncirculated directly from the Mint - Proof versions, however, were available.


The Philadelphia mint produced no bullion ASEs in 1997. It was primarily produced at the West Point mint, some was produced at the San Francisco mint.
Uncirculated silver and gold American eagle coins were introduced in 2006, which is why they were unavailable in 1997.
The Philadelphia mint was the mint producing Proof ASEs in 1997 (1993-2000, with of course the iconic West Point issue also being produced in 1995)
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 Posted 09/19/2024  11:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cptbilly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The lack of a (c) date on the 'COA' should have been my first clue, jbuck.

Thanks for the help, everyone. I'm certain the tips will save me $$ as I wade through the available examples of bullion, UNC, and proofs. Much appreciated.
Edited by cptbilly
09/19/2024 11:55 am
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 Posted 09/19/2024  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Check Gilly's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Gilly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I never thought much about this, but I believe every actual US Mint COA I have has the (facsimile) signature of the Mint director on it. In a few cases it says something like "acting director", when the govt couldn't even get together on officially agreeing on even something as simple as who the mint director was.
But I'd say something without a signature of a government official isn't something the mint put out.
But there are people who do collect bullion in this manner, people like different things.
I just have one good version of every year on the bullion, in capsules and a Lighthouse case. That's good enough.
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 Posted 09/19/2024  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenKat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well as usual I've gone on and on.


All good stuff, Gilly! Keep going
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 Posted 09/19/2024  5:19 pm  Show Profile   Check Gilly's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Gilly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
All good stuff, Gilly! Keep going

To quote Bubba Blue, after thinking up all the ways to cook shrimp: I think that's it....
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 Posted 09/21/2024  10:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another Long Troubling Topic to Some,

I am a Collector. The Term " Uncirculated " means Differing Things to A Very Differing Array of Collectors.

Terminology Matters....

Since knowing The Unc's are Historically a Lower Mintage Finish on Coins, Vs The Proof , They are a Natural Favorite of Mine. Many Collectors do NOT recognize, the Fact, the Unc's are Usually the Lowest Minted finish of Most U S Coinage,

In 2006 the U S Mint produced a 2006 American Eagle 20TH Anniversary Silver Coin Set. In The Set's Literature is a Description of The " New " Finish on the Set's Residents, The " Burnished " Finish.

I Would like to post a Statement From the American Silver Eagles Library Book, Fourth Edition. A Guide to the U S Bullion Coin Program By John M. Mercanti, Ex Chief Engraver from The U S Mint, He Wrote, Page 91 The Set Commentary ;

"This set of coins marked the 20th anniversary of the United States bullion program with Three American Silver Eagles, each produced with a Different Finish.
One had the Mint's New Burnished ( Uncirculated, in Mint Jargon) finish ;
Another had the standard brilliant mirror-like Proof finish;
and Another had the Reverse Proof finish ( used on the American Silver Eagle for the First Time ). "

The Term Uncirculated, In My Opinion has Been issued from 1986, The " Bullion " Finish is The Uncirculated Version, Just no mint mark.

Can The Collector of Today Discern The Difference from a Bullion Coin VS A Uncirculated Coin, Besides the Mint Mark!!!! That's My Point. Can Be Very Confusing, .......

I Know Collectors Will have A Different View, .....

........
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 Posted 09/21/2024  12:03 pm  Show Profile   Check Gilly's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Gilly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely a different view.
No one cares what I think about it, but it would be a much easier process to use bullion, Uncirculated, and Proof for the normal 3 finishes or out each year.
But "burnished" has to be added to confuse people between bullion and Uncirculated.
Plus people have to use (lower case) "uncirculated"
for either of them, as though there are any of them meant for circulation.
At least "proof" isn't confusing.
It's mainly the bullion vs Uncirculated.
Edited by Gilly
09/21/2024 12:04 pm
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 Posted 09/21/2024  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Check Gilly's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Gilly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
In 2006 the U S Mint produced a 2006 American Eagle 20TH Anniversary Silver Coin Set. In The Set's Literature is a Description of The " New " Finish on the Set's Residents, The " Burnished " Finish.


There were actually 3 different sets. No idea why they decided the 20th anniversary was such a big deal. The set you mentioned, the 3 coin silver set, plus the 2 coin silver and gold set (Uncirculated silver eagle and 1oz Uncirculated gold eagle (it was also the first year for the gold eagle Uncirculated finish), and a 3 coin gold eagle set, which was a 1 oz proof, Uncirculated, and the first and only time so far for a reverse proof gold eagle, so it will be the only type 1 reverse proof gold eagle.

They had the 5 coin set in 2011, to me that's a more significant anniversary. One thing I should look up, is if the also has any special 25th anniversary gold eagle set?
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