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1881 S Morgan DMPL Ins Certification Company Another Worthless Grading Company?

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Moniker's Avatar
Sweden
1392 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2025  03:19 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Moniker to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Looks rather old, are they frowned up on?' Never heard of them
not my coin



Edited by Moniker
04/13/2025 03:21 am
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MisterT's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 04/13/2025  06:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a decent coin but the TPG is not a well recognized grading company. Unsure if it actually DMPL. You will have to study it better. With a piece of white paper with printing on it, stand the coin on edge and see how far you can see the reflection of the printing . 2" would be prooflike and 4" would be DMPL. Also must be that criteria for both sides of the coin. Best wishes!
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ijn1944's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2025  09:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting holder, but certainly not main stream.
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Hondo Boguss's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 04/13/2025  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hondo Boguss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
INS was one of the very first TPGs, operating from the 1970s - early 1990s. I wouldn't put much stock in the grade, but there may be some value associated with the slab.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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fenton's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2025  10:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
INS isn't horrible and the holders are interesting. I've got an MS-65 Morgan from them that I think was properly graded.
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Chase007's Avatar
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7168 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2025  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
INS was one of the very first TPGs, operating from the 1970s - early 1990s. I wouldn't put much stock in the grade,

Exactly. This TPG also became popular due to their mostly graded Uncirculated coins designated at MS-65 and higher ( in most cases , not accurate but pleasing to the coins owners) they had a pretty profitable business and yet during those time the grading standards at most of these TPG's were not as high as it is today....
Edited by Chase007
04/13/2025 10:58 am
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Moniker's Avatar
Sweden
1392 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2025  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moniker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
interesting thanks for info all, it went for 240 dollars, I passed, a steal if the grade is true, but photos was to bad. I was expecting it to be somewhere in the range of ms63 and possibly pl not dmpl
Edited by Moniker
04/13/2025 2:12 pm
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jbuck's Avatar
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hadleydog's Avatar
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 Posted 04/15/2025  11:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From what I remember reading, INS was run by Charles Hoskins and Skip Fazzari. They had the original ANACS in Washington, DC and after the ANA moved it to Colorado, I believe they started this.
Skip Fazzari also worked with NGC, and now is with ICG.
Edited by hadleydog
04/16/2025 12:20 am
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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 Posted 04/16/2025  09:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Exactly. Originally, authentication, then grading was added.

Most of the informational posts are over at PCGS, can't post links here, but search for INSAB or INS. I'll quote one post from the thread about a 1904 $5 Liberty that ended up having the most consolidated view:


Quote:
Putting all this info in one place. Courtesy of collector universe and coin talk.

@insider2 posted:

"The International Numismatic Society (INS) was established in DC around 1975 - 76 (I forgot) by Charles Hoskins and a group of well-established US, world, and ancient coin dealers when ANACS left DC and Hoskins (the Director of ANACS) and most of the staff elected to stay behind. Chuck and I worked at INS's Authentication Bureau. We authenticated ancients, tokens, medals, and coins from any country or era. INSAB was the service that authenticated the 1870-S Half Dime after it was discovered. The INS had several yearly conventions with auctions in Washington, DC.

Before leaving ANACS Charlie and I were at the first grading roundtable where plans were being made for the ANA to start grading coins after the publication of a grading guide. ANACS was moved to CO before the guide was published. INS was the FIRST THIRD-PARTY COIN GRADING SERVICE beating the ANA by several months. Charlie and I graded coins for free upon request an sent out our opinion on a separate card from the Photo Certificate of Authenticity. As soon as the ANA started charging folks for a grading opinion we began charging extra for grading. Unfortunately, The ANA system of grading had some major flaws - chief of which was to combine the amount of wear on a coin with the number of marks. Additionally, while they claimed to have a technical grading system, no one there actually had a clue as they were never taught the system so they bastardized it. Then one day one-day coins graded MS-65 became MS-63's when they had to conform to the marketplace.

We used the "technical grading system" I devised for the internal records of ANACS when I worked there. This "true" technical system was based on the old standards of "No trace of wear." Since it was very strict, the grading was very precise with no wiggle room and very little subjectivity. The system was designed so that a coin would always be the same grade over time as long as its condition did not change. We were only concerned with its condition of preservation from when it was struck so a flat strike and eye appeal were not that important. The system was to identify a coin along with a weight and photo - NOT TO PLACE A VALUE ON IT. That was the job of the coin dealers. Obviously, this did not work in the marketplace. Nevertheless, INSAB stayed in business until the early 1990's. I left in the late 1980's."

From Conder101 on NGC boards:

INS was the second authentication service. They started up in 1975 just a couple years after ANACS (ANACS started in 1972 not 1974 as the MyCoinCollecting site says.) It was based in Washington DC, the same place as ANACS at the time. There earliest holders used Polaroid images of the coins and the certification was on a separate certificate, at first a postcard size and then later an 8 1/2 X 11 one ith much more detail about the coin. In 1976 Charles Hoskins left as director of ANACS and moved to INS where he became the company President. In 1979 they added grading to their certificates as well.

@PerryHall
In 1985 they licensed the use of the photoslab shells from Accugrade and began produced slabbed coins. The one Prudden posted is either an INS-3 or and INS-4 slab the difference being the addition of a serial number on the back of the INS-4.

In 1992 the company relocated to Philadelphia PA. The slabs changed to an orange label and the words Authentication Bureau were replaced with a Coin Capsule logo.

The last INS slab seen dates from 1997. The company has relocated once again and I now in Aston PA. The label is now a yellow orange and the INS has a new logo. At this point I think the company was now little more than Charles Hoskins just doing soe slabbing on the side. Aston PA is the last known address I have for him. INS -5 slabs from Philadelphia are few and far between, then with the five year jump before the INS-6 slab is probably a good indication that the company was pretty much defunct. Only one example of the INS-6 slab has been seen.

The slab company information on the Error World Administrators page came from me. I gave Jan Schwenk the information in answer to a question from him, and he then "generously donated it" to the website without asking me. Later when someone pointed out the website to me I agreed they could keep it and provided the information on companies 74 through 83. They attributed the information to Kerridee which is my sister-in-laws craft company. (My computer was down and I provided the information through her computer.)

Had no idea 1904 $5 were hard to find.



While Conder said "Only one example of the INS-6 slab has been seen" and elsewhere indicated it had probably been cracked out due to the value of the coin, there is at least one lower valued still in existence... I posted photos of it later in the thread I'm thinking of.



-----Burton
50 year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, OnLine Coin Club
Owned by four cats and a wife of 40 years (joined 1983)
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TinyRetreat's Avatar
United States
328 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2025  06:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TinyRetreat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Learning every day here ... thanks for the "historical" perspective BStrauss3 !
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Moniker's Avatar
Sweden
1392 Posts
 Posted 04/18/2025  06:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moniker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very informative. Thank you regret I didnt buy it
Edited by Moniker
04/18/2025 06:05 am
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