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More On Jefferson Nickel's And Full Steps

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Bedrock of the Community
GR58's Avatar
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 Posted 07/07/2010  10:36 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add GR58 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Last week I started a thread asking what was considered full step.

I read the responses and also did a search, and read old post on the same subject.

I ended up going and buying a book on the subject.

"A guide book of Buffalo and Jefferson nickels"
by Q. David Bowers

I would like to try and post some of the information I have been reading about. And see if some of the experts here agree.
It may take me a couple post to get it all down.

Definition of full steps (book contributes Bernard Nagengast)

"At the center front of Monticello are six steps, actually the front edge of the porch plus the edge of five steps."

He goes on to say it would be nice to to have a complete set of six step coins, but it would be impossible because for some issues(years) the working die use to produce the coins only had five steps.
This is particularly true on pre 1971 coins.

According to the book there are several different reverses since 1938.
1938, then 1939 can have the reverse of 38 or reverse of 40.
From 1940, no real change until 1971 then 1977 and 1982.
There were modification in 1986 and 1989.
After 1986 the mint maintained the master hub often enough that five and six step coins are easy to find.

Another interesting bit of information, there seems to be two main reasons why it is hard to get a full step coin.

One, being the design and at times not maintaining the master hub.

Two, The Act creating the nickel stated that it would weigh 77.16 grains with a two grain variation. With the hardness in the composition of the nickel this two grain variation caused a problem with the pressing of the coin.

Basically - To get a full detail (FD) coin, the press would have to be set up precisely the right distance apart, and have a planchet that was precisely the correct weight that was annealed to the ideal softness to get needle sharp detail. The problem then is when a planchet comes along that is 2 grains overweight, but still legal, the extra metal has no where to go, causing wear on the die or worse cracking.

The mint employee's answer to this was to space the die's slightly apart to accommodate for the overweight planchets. Results were that correct and underweight planchets would produce coins with areas of weakness and coins where "planchets scratches" were not pressed out.

There is a lot more interesting information in the book, I am sure, for me, I will have to read it a couple times for it to sink in.

Let me know if this information helps .. or if I got some of it wrong.
Edited by GR58
07/07/2010 11:07 pm
Bedrock of the Community
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10284 Posts
 Posted 07/07/2010  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The best book you could have bought in my opinion. Now you will learn a lot. This is my favorite book as I collect both of these coins especially the Jefferson's.
Another factor in the lack of detail found on one side of the coin has to do with the designs. A more recessed area on one side of the die, say, Jefferson's cheek, would take more pressure to squeeze the planchet into the hub where the steps are. I think when they modified these reverses, they took the depth of the obverse design into account and made it more shallow.
I am excited that you found this book. I just wish it had a supplemental update for values and mentioned a few other varieties.
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Adam_E's Avatar
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4846 Posts
 Posted 07/07/2010  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for the info!
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GR58's Avatar
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11951 Posts
 Posted 07/07/2010  11:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wheezydog
Thanks for the additional information. I really do like this book. So far I have just been reading a few section that caught my attention. I really like the book and I am sure I will read it a couple time.

I agree about a supplement. The book went to print in 2005. It would be nice to see more current values and population information.

I do like how they list each year and mint of nickels, and give how rare or common it is to find five and six step coins. For me it will make it easier to cherry pick for better coins.
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Namachieli's Avatar
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2120 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2010  12:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Namachieli to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very good information. That may be a book I need to pick up.
Edited by Namachieli
07/08/2010 12:14 am
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Adam_E's Avatar
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 Posted 07/08/2010  12:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Edited by Adam_E
07/08/2010 12:17 am
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Namachieli's Avatar
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 Posted 07/08/2010  12:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Namachieli to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Having iPhone technical difficulties. Safari was out on me. Lol
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Adam_E's Avatar
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 Posted 07/08/2010  12:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
don't ya mean....iFUN?
Bedrock of the Community
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10284 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2010  02:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many people do roll searching and keep older coins, which is fine. Those keeping pre 1960 nickels may just be keeping a 50 cent coin and discarding a 5 dollar one just because it is of recent date. I have two boxes here that make good doorstops for about 2 months or so now.
If I ever break into them, I bet I keep a lot of the nickels others normally return to circulation.
I am not saying I do it right and others do it wrong but finding well struck coins in high grade being scarce on some years does make them keepers for me.
I am so bogged down and backed up with nickels right now, I hope my eyesight stays good til I get them organized and picked over. So much to do and so little time.
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lukkyseven's Avatar
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880 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2010  09:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lukkyseven to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This was a nice find. I just did a quick search on the site and turns out there's plenty of good information in past posts.
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rastatodd's Avatar
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487 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2010  10:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rastatodd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you go to the PCGS website under grading, they break down what they consider full steps for a Jefferson nickel. What better information than it coming from the #1 TPG company. IMHO
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lukkyseven's Avatar
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880 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2010  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lukkyseven to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very good point. I'll look for it on there a little more. The only thing I could find was what FS stood for.
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