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New Member
United States
40 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  4:03 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add uslccollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I was going to ask what seems to be a very common question, "When should I send my coins in for TPG?"

But it seems there are a bunch of pros and cons concerning this action.

I primarily collect US Braided Hair Large Cents in XF45 and above grade; coins that fall in my purchasing power range. But for rarer varieties I will purchase nice examples in lower grades.

I've noted that many Large Cent collectors would rather have the coins in safe flips, instead of slabs. I tend to like taking my coins out and looking at them. I am especially fascinated by identifying these coins varieties and die states. Slabs tend to make viewing the coin edges somewhat difficult.

I am beginning to think that unless you have very valuable/rare coins, and have a healthy income, slabbing is probably not the thing do do. You need to join a club, which costs money, and you need to renew yearly, unless these TPGer's have a lifetime membership, and who can afford such, unless you are a doctor or lawyer, or other high end professional.

I have found a few reputable dealers in Large Cents that I do not fear purchasing uncertified coins from. But when I come across someone I do not know, a slabbed coin is usually what I lean towards. I doubt many of the Braided Hair Large Cents are candidates for counterfeiters, so I probably do not have much to worry there.

Anyway, I am going to listen to anyone who wants to inject their opinion about this subject. Just for them to know, 75 percent of my Large Cents are priced above $200, and up to around $600. Some of these coins were at one time in slabs, but were broken out of them by the seller for one reason or another. I believe one reason was because of what is called PSGS rattlers, which are not good for preserving coins.
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6552 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Check edweather's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hate to answer a question with a question, but if it's your collection, why would you want them slabbed? Flips or 2 x 2 s work fine. Slabbing is expensive. Nothing wrong with PCGS rattlers, except for the rattle, they are fine for storage, unless there's something I'm not aware of.
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48703 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You are definitely going to get a wide range of opinions on this one.

I have never sent a coin in. I doubt I ever will, but if I did the coin would need to be worth at least $200 to make certification worthwhile. There are many who share a similar opinion, but will vary on the cutoff value.

Most of my coins are raw and kept in Dansco albums.

I have recently started to collect slabbed Eisenhower dollars, but these are coins that are already certified. Someone else took on the hassle and expense of getting them graded. I am paying for the coin only, not the certification.
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19137 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I too use a $200 valuation as a rough floor for sending items to TPGs. Most of my collection/inventory above that level today is holdered because it facilitates selling and auction submission. It seems to be the way today's e-market is evolving. Even 10 years ago I seldom submitted for certification - now I do it all the time.
"You can't fool all the people all the time - others would like a chance."

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United States
4583 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  6:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"When should I send my coins in for TPG?"


A coin never "should" be slabbed at any time in the context of slabbing being a necessity for any coin. Understand that TPGs are an unnecessary service offered to the coin hobby.

TPGs do offer online references and other aids to collectors as a legitimate part of growing their own businesses.

The mindset that all good coins "need" to be slabbed has been fostered since the days when eBay stsrted to become a major marketplace, and slabs were offered in higher numbers than ever before. Any collector who so wishes can learn to grade their own coins with just as much accuracy as the paid "professionals."

People who understand these businesses and their system will have good coins slabbed to maximize profits if they are selling. They also will sometimes submit it for a CAC sticker to check the TPG experts did their job correctly (!)

But... people pay more for the green sticker.

Buyers are willing to pay more for a slabbed coin and not question the TPG applied grade. Yet if the coin is broken out of the slab, you cannot guarantee it will ever rate that same level.

Aslo do not make the mistake that slabs airtight. Slabs are not a guarantee against corrosion of the coin inside if not stored properly. Some people like to store their slabbed coins in ziplock bags to help keep them safe. Just use the same precautions as you would with any types of coin storage.

On the other side of things...
Slabbed coins do look nice. Even the marketing gimmicks of making different looking labels for the exact same coin can look nice when a complete set of the labels is side by side.

If a person likes the looks of slabs - go for it - its a hobby. Have fun with them.


So either spend the money b/c you like the looks and/or plan to sell. Or save your money for obtaining more coins.








- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Real men play Fizzbin.
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 Posted 10/12/2017  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The way things are going, any reasonably valuable coin will eventually need a TPG certification to sell at a fair price in a public forum, like it or not. Buying raw makes sense if you have a skilled eye, but sooner or later you will likely pay the piper if you collect coins of value.
"You can't fool all the people all the time - others would like a chance."

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9614 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You need to join a club, which costs money, and you need to renew yearly,


The PCGS one actually saves you money with the value of the voucher being grater than the cost and the NGC one is essentially even money. Yes there is an upfront cost for it, but you recover it with either of them on your first submission so really it is free and the PCGS one saves you money.


Quote:
The way things are going, any reasonably valuable coin will eventually need a TPG certification to sell at a fair price in a public forum, like it or not.


Very true. The internet market is a huge part of the hubby now and nicer coins are now looked at skeptically that are raw


Quote:
Any collector who so wishes can learn to grade their own coins with just as much accuracy as the paid "professionals."


Not really, professional graders don't grow on trees.
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1464 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  8:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess that there is no getting around the fact that with ecommerce, so many things are being sold without in-person inspection, and not many are willing to believe anyone's opinion on a grade or even their own without a slab from a reputable TPG.

But, if you are not planning to sell it anytime soon, I see no reason to have your coins slabbed.
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 Posted 10/12/2017  8:39 pm  Show Profile   Check Crazyb0's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just read a post earlier that really hit home. Once you "crack" a coffin, even if you keep the certification sticker for when/if you ever resell it, IT DON"T MEAN SQUAT any more. So my cynicism went into full gear, with some TPG's inadvertently certifying the really good counterfeits, what happens when you free a slabbed fake? Bound to happen (example I read was just that). What is the real purpose of buying TPG then in the first place. Only thing I can figure is one must really know your coins, the addage,"If you know the original(s), you can know the fake" becomes rule of the day. Personally, It don't even concern me, I can't afford that frivolous luxury on my limited income and two, "Momma didn't raise no fool", priorities, my man.
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 Posted 10/12/2017  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
with some TPG's inadvertently certifying the really good counterfeits,


That's an extremely rare occurrence that almost always get's caught quickly when it happens. It's rare enough that it is about equal to being scared of every step you take because a sinkhole could open up. As far as a TPG grade meaning nothing once a coin is cracked that is for good reason. As soon the coin is out of the slab you don't know what was done to it or if it is still the exact same condition once it was sent in. Unless it's a PCGS secure plus coin or have a TruView you wouldn't even know if it was the same coin or someone is just using a label with it to prop it up. The NGC pictures aren't good enough on a lot of generic looking coins to tell
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 Posted 10/12/2017  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
baseball said:

Quote:

Quote:
You need to join a club, which costs money, and you need to renew yearly,


The PCGS one actually saves you money with the value of the voucher being grater than the cost and the NGC one is essentially even money. Yes there is an upfront cost for it, but you recover it with either of them on your first submission so really it is free and the PCGS one saves you money.


Spending money to join means a person is not in possession of that money anymore. Joining is not saving money since there initial outlay is not in my pocket. The future payments of cash also are not saved money.

However, If I enjoyed these products and submitting coins was an expense I frequently decided to pay, I am sure what you say is correct.

See - my friend basebal... I can be nice when talking about these snake oil...um...businsses ...sometimes

Please - that really was all in fun for a chuckle...



Quote:

Quote:
The way things are going, any reasonably valuable coin will eventually need a TPG certification to sell at a fair price in a public forum, like it or not.


Very true. The internet market is a huge part of the hubby now and nicer coins are now looked at skeptically that are raw

Very unfortunate since these slabs have, not meaning to, diverted the focus of the hobby. This has happened in two ways:

1. As has been said - break a coin out and the label is no longer valid - it has to be resubmitted and might not get the same grade at all. So where is the real focus here? Is it on the coin itself or the opinion of the paid expert (who has a different paid expert apply a sticker if he thinks the job was done right).

2. The focus and market of slabs becoming so large has thrown away what used to be the fun of the hobby with every single coin. Nowadays people see collections of a series as (for example) "junk silver" plus a 16-D, 21, and 21D dime.

The hobby has been changing - and its not been for the better. The individual coin MMs and mintages no longer mean what they did.

It used to be a coin shop would pull out a tray with slots for each date and MM for a series. You could look at several in each slot to determine which you wanted and they were priced accordingly by factual data like mintages, MM, and grade. Yes, more rare slabbed coins still sell for more, but the history of each coin, along with its value, is no linger the main focus and fun of the hobby. As with most things as time goes on, real history is cheapened by commercialism and marketing. Again - its not intentional - its a sad result.



Quote:

Any collector who so wishes can learn to grade their own coins with just as much accuracy as the paid "professionals."


Not really, professional graders don't grow on trees.

My wording there was purposeful. As a former teacher I know it is the norm that any competent person who desires to learn about anything will be able to if they apply themselves. Some will need work harder, but that's the human equation.

There is nothing special about these graders other than they have taken the time to study and therefore have experience with their specific companies selected standards. We also know different experts from different companies will not agree with each other.

I have some acquaintances who were TPG graders and have yet to see either ride a magic carpet to the shop.

They owned their own stores for some years, saw the TPGs would pay for graders, and owning a shop was a good credential. After a brief orientation, they were put to work and payed by how many they could get done in a day. This is how these companies got to where they are.



- When I value " being right" more than what IS right, I am then right...a fool.
- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
- Real men play Fizzbin.
Edited by Earle42
10/12/2017 9:53 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
13232 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2017  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That's an extremely rare occurrence that almost always get's caught quickly when it happens.

Rare yes, but will probably become more commonplace, and the identification of the fakes that have gotten into slabs has come from specialists in the series, not the TPG's. Once the specialists point out the flaws and identification point to the TPG's they stop slabbing the fakes. (And then typically make an announcement about how THEY have discovered a new counterfeit.)
Gary Schmidt
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United States
7091 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2017  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2012 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I believe one reason was because of what is called PSGS rattlers


Rattler slabs are cracked open by people hoping the coins inside them would get a higher grade when resubmitted. It has nothing to do with how well they protect the coin.
Sets in progress... Mercury dimes, Washington quarters, 7070 Type Set
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United States
1015 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2017  11:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brucec to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was going to send some coins for grading but when I saw one must join the company to get service that turned me off. Having said that I did check into it more and found if you join the ANA you can submit coins for grading. So I joined ANA use to belong I did like the magazine they send to members looking forward to getting my 1st one again.
However I like others will not send any coin into be grades unless I know it has a value of over $200.00 then I can see having it graded.

But as said I would not send it in unless I thought I may sell the coin I have graded and I do not sell much at all just hoard my coins.

The wife says I have way to many she is right but I just love collecting.
Valued Member
United States
142 Posts
 Posted 10/13/2017  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...these are coins that are already certified. Someone else took on the hassle and expense of getting them graded. I am paying for the coin only, not the certification.


I understand that you're not paying directly for the slabbing process, but aren't you paying for it indirectly in that the slabbed coin costs more than an unslabbed coin? Or are you finding that you can pay the same price?
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 Posted 10/13/2017  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paxbrit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can tell you that this active collector has bought over 100 slabbed banknotes in 2017, and I have returned only ONE of them for grade, and another for undisclosed paper damage.

The 150 raw notes I've bought in 2017, however, have seen numerous returns for grade, undisclosed damage, deceptive photographs, etc, etc, etc. The TPG item acts as a definite bar to chicanery and error by vendors, where grading is seemingly subjective, counterfeits are increasing, and ethics can be spotty. TPG allows me to basically consider price and eye appeal when purchasing, and eliminates the need for a lot of buyer concerns, at least generally.
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