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1652 Oak Tree Shilling Pulled Out Of The Ground On Saturday Metal Detecting Any Info Please.

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 Posted 12/19/2022  04:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lcutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The hairlines are common on dug silver, sometimes just a wipe with a thumb to see what it is will do it, even freeze thaw cycles and movement in the soil can leave a cleaned look.
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 Posted 12/19/2022  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I had an old coin book printed in London in 1653, that mentions a "curious silver disk, with an NE monogram on one side, and XII on the other..." and the author supposed it was a Norwich(e) issue, but didn't know for sure
@Oldgrouchyguy, do you have the book/author to reference? 1653 seems far too early to me. http://numismatics.org/digitallibra...95/nnan42410 is an interesting read geared towards the "Good Samaritan" shilling but lots of info about the other early coins. It says
Quote:
The earliest numismatic publications mentioning Massachusetts coinage are Ralph Thorsby's Ducatus Leodiensis, published in London in 1715, followed by Stephen Martin-Leake's An Historical Account of English Money published in 1726. Although the former suggested that the NE on the New England coinage might be an abbreviation for Newark under seige, the latter states that the Earl of Pembroke has classified them in his collection as New England coins. Pine Tree pieces are included in each book, but the Good Samaritan shilling is not mentioned by either writer.
...
The next publication to include the Good Samaritan shilling was prepared by Martin Folkes. Folkes, whose reputation as an antiquary was acknowledged by his presidency of the Royal Society from 1741 to 1752, published in 1745 under the auspices of the Society of Antiquaries, A Table of English Silver Coins.
I was familiar with the Folkes book from our infamous 1652 threepence thread, as generating the first interest in collecting these early Colonials in the UK. The Folkes book says:

1652-Oak-Tree-Shilling-Pulled-Out-Of-The-Ground-On-Saturday-Metal-Detecting-Any-Info-Please.
which mentions them thought to have been struck at Newcastle, not Norwiche. It sounds very similar to what you quoted, but not the same, and not from 1653. (Note that Folkes references non-existent twopence and penny coins; more on that in the linked article)
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Russian Federation
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 Posted 12/20/2022  07:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ralph Thorsby's Ducatus Leodiensis, published in London in 1715
I looked it up on Internet Archive, and on page 592, in the Appendix, it says the following...
1652-Oak-Tree-Shilling-Pulled-Out-Of-The-Ground-On-Saturday-Metal-Detecting-Any-Info-Please.
So it looks like the attribution to New England was already attested even that far back. [Page 376 features several coins of later issues, on which "New England" is given in full.]

On the face of it I can see how it got attributed to Newark - those crude issues sure do look like siege money!
I don't recall offhand whether there were any siege issues from Norwich or Newcastle.

[EDIT: the intriguing name "Jer. Dummer Esq" matches Jeremiah Dummer, a major figure in early 18th century Connecticut, though if so then calling him a "Native" (sic) must have had very different connotation from today!]
Edited by january1may
12/20/2022 07:46 am
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 Posted 12/20/2022  11:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@january1may, thank you for digging that up. I have seen the Norwich reference somewhere, but getting "Norwich" out of "NE" always seemed like a stretch. I wonder where that came from.
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 Posted 12/20/2022  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
@january1may, thank you for digging that up.
I should have included the original context of entry number 380...
1652-Oak-Tree-Shilling-Pulled-Out-Of-The-Ground-On-Saturday-Metal-Detecting-Any-Info-Please.
In other words, it was listed in the English Civil War section, next to several other siege issues.

As I mentioned, if you don't happen to know, it's easy to make a guess that those very simple and crude pieces must be siege money of some kind, and Newark immediately comes to mind as a plausible candidate...
I'm not sure why Norwich either. AFAICT there are no siege issues from Norwich (though there's a lot of local tokens), and where would the E come from?
Newcastle makes a little more sense, though I'm not aware of any actual reports attributing it to there. Perhaps someone misremembered Newark.
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