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 Replies: 21 / Views: 3,014 |
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Valued Member
United States
424 Posts |
I have been cataloging my collection and I have noticed something that I cannot seem to answer to my satisfaction. Here is what inspired this question. In 1987 the Philadelphia mint produced 2,890,758 Kennedy half dollars. In 1857 this same mint produced 17,450,000 one cent coins. The KHD is valued at $5.00 in MS-63 while the FEC is valued at $900 in the same condition ( Red Book 2016 prices). Why is this so? It cannot because of rarity, there were about six times more FEC produced than the KHD. Is it age? Will the KHD be of equivalent value to the FEC in 2117? Or will it still be basically the same value that it is now? It cannot be because of composition since they are of very similar metallurgy. It cannot be because of original face value since the KHD is 50 times more valuable on this count , and yet the FEC is priced at 180 times more than the KHD. So my question is this; why is a coin that was made and used for general circulation and commerce so much more valuable than a coin that was made specifically for the collector? And another question? Will there ever be a time that the 1987-P KHD be of the same value as a $900 coin? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
Specifically to your question, the FEC was not only made with more crude equipment (and thus probably rare above MS 63 when fresh from the mint), but very, very few examples were saved by collectors, and even fewer survived the turmoil of 1861-65. Since the turn of the century, the type has become popular, with reasonably few problem-free examples to complete a US cent type set. In a general sense, it is 99% supply and demand, and 1% cool factor. Coins can be cheap or expensive, regardless of their strike quality, mintage, age, composition (down to bullion value), or even historic significance. US coins have a large, steady, and reliable market. I can post a FEC of any grade between G-F on ebay this very moment, and expect about a dozen bids with a final bid in the $20-50 range. Likewise, a 1909-S VDB cent will sell for no less than $400 in any certifiable condition. With other coins, the market is much less certain, even fickle. I have a 1972 Cook Island 5 cent impaired proof; mintage of just a few thousand. It would bring a king's ransom if it were a US coin, but since it isn't, then it doesn't. I would be hard pressed to sell that particular coin for enough to cover the cost of a postage stamp. Simply put, there just aren't a few thousand people in the world who would be interested in paying more than 50 cents for that particular coin. |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12813 Posts |
Succinctly but over-simplified, the Market determines a coin's value.
...and supply & demand is just one of the many component of what makes up a market.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
99.999% of all FEC are circulated, while 99.999% of 1987 halves are UNcirculated. An uncirculated FEC is rare and deserving of a higher premium, and it cannot be compared with a modern issue where MS examples are common.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts |
Exactly. Since the 1857 FEC was issued for circulation, they circulated, leaving few in uncirculated grades. 1987 Kennedys were produced for collectors, so most of the mintage is still MS. There's also more appeal in the FEC- more people are willing to buy the first small cent date issued, while not many want to pay more than a few dollars for something that can be found by searching a few boxes of halves.
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Moderator
 United States
14463 Posts |
 Production amounts are only one part of the formula that include production quality, how many survive over the years, & public appeal. Its mainly "supply-versus-demand" for most values for any coin. |
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Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
 to CCF. To answer your question: Condition rarity and demand. John1  Edited by John1
12/04/2015 05:17 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5828 Posts |
everyone posted better than what I could. Listen to them! |
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Valued Member
United States
374 Posts |
Two factors: age and the amount of MS-63 pieces made that year. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1314 Posts |
Quote:
made with more crude equipment (and thus probably rare above MS 63 when fresh from the mint) It has always been my belief that the condition of the dies had no bearing on the coin's grade, only post minting degradation. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1316 Posts |
Classic US coins carry a large premium. I recently traded an 1805 Bust dime in AG condition for a certified XF 8 Reales Bolivia. Check eBay/Heritage on any given day for an 1805 Bust Dime and several examples of all grades come up. Search for a 1782 Bolivia 8 Reales of any grade and one will be waiting for quite a while for the next one to come around. Another example, most Morgan dollars in any grade under MS66, even CC issues are not at all hard to find, but the market rate on them can be steep sometimes. Look at the population reports of certified Morgan dollars to see just how incredibly abundant they are, yet they go for relatively big money compared to anything else with tens of thousands of certified examples. Supply and Demand can be a really wacky thing. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
Quote:
It has always been my belief that the condition of the dies had no bearing on the coin's grade, only post minting degradation. That is true to an extent; an uncirculated coin by definition will be a minimum of MS-60, but not every coin starts as MS-70 or even 65. I am not aware of a single example of a coin made prior to 1900 that grades 69 or 70, and 66-68 are extremely rare themselves. To use the FEC as an example, the series was actually halted because the design was very poorly balanced; the eagle would very frequently show up on the reverse because there were not enough devices to absorb the pressure properly. That flaw by default would disqualify most FECs from a grade above 65, where strike quality starts to come in to play more so than the absence of contact marks. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
548 Posts |
Fundamentally for a coin to be considered valuable it has to be something that people want.
You can break it down to a whole bunch of factors but in the end it's about supply and demand.
Edited by Demarco Bishopp
12/04/2015 3:31 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts |
Quote:
I am not aware of a single example of a coin made prior to 1900 that grades 69 or 70 I believe the oldest coin (US at least) in MS-69 is an 1881-S Morgan and the oldest in MS-70 is a Lincoln from the '60s. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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I believe the oldest coin (US at least) in MS-69 is an 1881-S Morgan and the oldest in MS-70 is a Lincoln from the '60s. That sounds right for the MS70, but there is a single 1793 1C in MS-69 from PCGS. You have to go all the way to 1861 though to find even a MS 68 1C of any kind from them. 1919 is the next MS 69 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts |
Oh yeah, I forgot about the 1793. That's just incredible that one could have survived in such spectacular condition.
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Replies: 21 / Views: 3,014 |
Posted 12/03/2015 10:37 pm
