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 Replies: 47 / Views: 5,628 |
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Locked
822 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
914 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2602 Posts |
Not sure I see the problem on this one. The pictures show empty coin holders and ther auction clearly says no coins. The title says holders/boxes. I don't know why there would be a reserve on this auction, though. Are they expecting people to shell out $100 for empty holders and boxes?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
I think the "rule" that may apply here is either property theft or trademark theft of NGC's identity/product. I don't believe that NGC would knowingly allow such a sale. I'll shoot them an email.
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Locked
 822 Posts |
mycrob, I can honestly say that if you really don't see anything wrong with selling NGC inserts with cert numbers and grades, that I have lost all respect for you as a collector. There's just no other way to say it. Sorry.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2602 Posts |
I didn't think about theft of the cert#, etc. I thought you were reporting it because you felt they were trying to deceive the buyer into thinking there were coins in the holders. That's where I was coming from. I think the seller was close to crossing that line, but showed the holders in the pictures not having coins and said "no coins".
I guess what you are getting at is that the winner of the auction could use the numbers for a new uncertified coin and re-glue the holders and then sell to an unsuspecting buyer? I never thought of that, and that I find distasteful and dishonest.
You were awfully quick to judge me as a collector, aren't you scumbuster? I think you could have said it in a different way to educate me.
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Moderator
 United States
6563 Posts |
Though technically nothing wrong with the auction itself...however it's being sold with the understanding that there will be unethically repercussions from this sale.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
560 Posts |
I actually think there is quite a bit wrong with this auction. NGC and other third party grading companies rely on their reputation as graders in order to sell their product. Their grades can have a large impact on the value of the coins that are sold. Selling empty holders with bar codes and certificates of authenticity is theft of service and infringes upon the intellectual property rights of NGC.
The fact that someone can purchase these, slam any old coin into them and sell them as something they are not, is equally distasteful. Conspiracy to commit fraud sounds about right.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1014 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
393 Posts |
This is a new low in numismatic scams. Why would these people want their name and rating associated with this mess?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
819 Posts |
Perhaps if NGC is alerted to this practice they could do something about it? ebay is usually faster about deleting auctions; I rarely get to see one. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
What a scam! The seller didn't seem to think this one through though. If he's going to start a business printing bogus slabs, labels, boxes, etc., then why is he doing them for worthless coins (like modern Buffalo nickels)? You'd think the scammers who want to buy his products would prefer to buy bogus slabs for older coins (like cleaned/whizzed Lincolns or Morgans). |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts |
I'm surprised ebay still has these around. If this doesn't tell you that they are supporting fraud and scammers, nothing does. quote:
You were awfully quick to judge me as a collector, aren't you scumbuster? I think you could have said it in a different way to educate me
Mycrob, I agree with you here to a certain extent, and I think Scumbuster will agree that maybe he was just a little too quick lipped on that one. Understand that most posts here with links to ebay auctions are not for rules infractions, but are more to educate the collector on bad buys or things to be aware of when bidding. While this may not break any listing rules, for the collecting world, this is huge. Forget about the previous threads in which you chose to disagree with other folks and look at the future threads as a collector instead of a seller. quote:
If he's going to start a business printing bogus slabs, labels, boxes, etc
They are probably NOT bogus, but cracked out coins for other collections. WHich is what makes this even worse. Someone can put a lower grade coin in there and reseal, and the pedigree listed with the cert number will be accurate as far as the buyer knows. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
I am certain that NGC would have a BIG problem with that listing. That seller could be in a heap of trouble for violating NGC's terms.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
Nope...at most, he'll get a letter threatening legal action if he doesn't cease and desist. If he chooses to continue, there's still no guaranty that they'll do anything (legal costs could be huge to them) and it's questionable whether they'd even have a case against him. Unless they have something in writing that explicitly prohibits the resale of their slabs without the coin, he's technically not breaking any rules, since he's not advertising any particular use for them to the sellers. His defense is that he never intended for his customers to re-use the containers to sell fraudulantly-graded coins...he was just selling the slabs the same way that people sell all sorts of worthless junk, with no intended end-use.
Edited by mahgobbi
02/03/2008 10:39 am
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Locked
822 Posts |
quote:
You were awfully quick to judge me as a collector, aren't you scumbuster?
I'm sorry, I didn't think it would be possible for anyone not to instantly see what's going on. The first 2 pictures in the listing are huge, 640 pixels wide and are these....   I didn't think there was any chance of a misunderstanding. I also am already thinking you just like to argue, since in the other thread you've blatantly said outright that you believe..... quote:
Include a clear picture of the actual coin or paper money item that is being offered for sale.
means.... quote:
If they want us to NOT use stock photos, it should explicitly say that, and until they do, I will continue to use stock phots in at least some of my auctions.
So I'm quite confused what to think about your thinking. If I offended you I am indeed sorry. I'm just trying to figure you out, I obviously haven't yet. |
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Replies: 47 / Views: 5,628 |
Posted 02/02/2008 9:54 pm
