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Replies: 18 / Views: 3,413 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020 In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020 In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
You usually will really see a notch on the right leg of R in trust. The "notches" you're seeing have no corresponding line emanating from them, suspect faulty die.? I'm only seeing it on TR lower left, its so slight I'm thinking this is master die doubling on a newer/less used die. I see no other signs other than a globby curve on 2, but don't think that's anything. On second thought, that 2 bugs me, I'm thinking you may have a VLDS because of die flows. See: http://varietyvista.com/04a%20JN%20...2PDDO006.htm
Edited by Crazyb0 09/12/2017 12:16 am
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Bedrock of the Community
  United States
12477 Posts |
I added some crafty arrows to point out what I'm seeing in TRUST. The yellow arrows show split serifs and what may be DD or MD. The red arrow shows the clearest split of the serifs on the last T: 
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020 In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020 In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
As in CrazyB0's pic, I think your notching shows a definite DDO with some MD also. Maybe a bit of die stress in there as well.  We all new its not impossible to find new varieties.
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Now that pix shows a definite CCW direction hub doubling with a reverse direction MD or die attrition, which I suspect is why the flow lines are so prominent. This MD shows to right of devices, doubling shows to the left lower and right upper. Looks to be a Class 1 + 6 rotated and distended hub doubling in CCW/NE direction, guessing pivot point around the last T in TRUST. After again looking at the VV listing above, it can't be that one, rotation wrong. I'll do some checking later...  Try this one for size: http://varietyvista.com/04a%20JN%20...2PDDO004.htmThink what you have is a mule, the obverse die that made yours was continued to be used when they switched over to silvers and different reverse dies. I see too many similarities on shape of details, bottom of N, shape of lower E, date is almost identical. This may explain such drastic flow lines on yours and loss of detail on silver due to further use and repair. I would send this to Wexlers and have him further determine, include these notes too. 
Edited by Crazyb0 09/12/2017 1:11 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
I looked in my best of the Jefferson doubled dies book and did not see anything to attribute this to but that last image shows some promise. I don't see anything on the date except maybe at the base of the 1.
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Pillar of the Community
7234 Posts |
Definitely see the notching - any doubling on the nose area?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74678 Posts |
It is a real Doubled Die as I can see notching on the T in Trust. Also shows MD or DDD.
Errers and Varietys.
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Bedrock of the Community
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12477 Posts |
Thanks for the responses. I'll look more into that '42-P DDO you linked to, Crazyb0. I didn't really consider any of the silver DDOs but I assume it's possible for this die to have been used on silvers. I'll see if I can get some pics with less shadow and glare in important areas and try to match any markers. If it were a match to the -004, then I guess that one is the "mule" and mine would be the original. 
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020 In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020 In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Bedrock of the Community
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10038 Posts |
Good sleuthing there Crazyb0 
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Bedrock of the Community
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62064 Posts |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Oops, think we all have egg on our faces now!  
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Bedrock of the Community
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12477 Posts |
Thanks coop. It's in my album now so, either way, it's not going anywhere! 
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020 In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020 In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Pillar of the Community
7234 Posts |
So if it's not a type of DD can anybody address all the little notches in the letters? Never saw that before on a normal minted coin. 
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Bedrock of the Community
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12477 Posts |
Quote: can anybody address all the little notches in the letters? I would be interested in knowing as well.
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020 In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020 In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Bedrock of the Community
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62064 Posts |
A message from a fellow coin family member about this thead: [quote[Hi Richard Thanks for responding to Spruett's 1942 nickel post. Can you explain it a bit further to me, still a bit confused. On his redone second pic I do see a definite indication of notching. Is this then a strike motion/movement or product of Die Deterioration? To me, this looked hub doubled but was strange because of die state. Thanks. Butch Lindahl[/quote] I thought I would share it here on the forum as others may have wondered what I saw as not hub doubling.Sometimes MD can mimic hub doubling. But on hub doubling there should be a spread/enlargement of the devices. When you look at these images, you see enlargement from the die wear distorting the overall shape of the devices. (especially in the direction towards the rims) But what looks like a notching, does not enlarge the device. That should happen on a doubled die. MD will only alter the devices by reducing them. If there is evidence of other areas of the devices being affected by MD, then it is save to bet that the areas showing not showing MD, can be masking to look like MD. On the image I have of MD you can see that the MD is not the same on all the devices.  MD can alter each device because of the die swing/movement during the strike. On hub doubling you see sometimes a uniform movement of the devices:  Notching is also a uniform thing, but can vary, but overall can be the same then taper on later devices.  Note how the hub doubling enlarges the devices on this image above.  Note how the nothing is seen on several parts of the devices, not on the corners of one area like the one on the thread.  This is a tripled die, so the doubling will be harder to see on all the devices. But you can see enlargement of the devices compared to a normal coin. (note the area of the devices next to the rim? You can see they are enlarged. So if the area is showing notching, it may be MD if other areas of the coin is showing MD. But if it is a doubled die, you should see the devices enlarged, not reduced on the over all look of the devices. Hope this helps?
Edited by coop 09/14/2017 11:30 am
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Replies: 18 / Views: 3,413 |