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 Replies: 14 / Views: 2,779 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts |
Right now on ebay, there are three Buffalo nickels, 1936, Brilliant, PR or PF 68. NGC says the value is $15,300, PCGS says $17,500. The PCGS coin also has the CAC sticker, so might grade a bit higher. One of the NGC coins has a BIN price of $6,499, the other $11,020 BIN OBO, and the PCGS is $16,695 BIN OBO. I can see asking more for the last one because of the CAC sticker, but why the vastly different prices for these coins? Links: Coin 1Coin 2Coin 3 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
The real value of these high end coins are the realized prices at auction. The last 1936 Brilliant PF68 in 2019 sold at auction for $4230.
Coin #1 The blast white looks like it been dipped.
Coin #2 Looks original but overpriced.
Coin #3 Came from the Bob R. Simpson Coin Collection and it is most likely one of the top coins for grade and date, and you may need to pay a premium for the Simpson pedigree.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5825 Posts |
Quote:
... but why the vastly different prices for these coins? The price being asked is often not the value of a coin, particularly for big ticket coins. The price being paid is the value. And I think many of the auctions on ebay like those are advertisements by sellers. I often use ebay to help me determine how much I'm willing to pay for a coin. BUTI click on Advanced and select the Sold option to see what is really being paid. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10034 Posts |
If you wanted, you could post a common Lincoln Cent on ebay with a BIN for $1,000,000. But that does not mean it's value is really $1,000,000. Only sold listings on ebay show what people are actually paying. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
Earle42, I found your Kennedy half No FG link (in your signature) very informative. I have a very nice wannabee. Never knew about the 1966 SMS and 1972D no FGs. I'll have to dig out my SMS set(s). Edited by TNG
12/22/2020 12:24 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
790 Posts |
I did look at realized auction prices and they are all over the place for this coin and grade. One graded by PCGS sold at Heritage for $12,600, and another last year at $16,450. One graded at 68+ went for nearly $40k. NGC auction prices are quite a bit lower—why is that? Are they so much less trustworthy as graders?
Anyway, I can see some justification for the PCGS and NGC values. And if it's true that the first coin was dipped, I can see a much lower price for it, but is NGC such a poor grader they'd miss that?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8938 Posts |
You want my opinion? The first one is the only one accurately graded.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
697 Posts |
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I did look at realized auction prices and they are all over the place for this coin and grade. One graded by PCGS sold at Heritage for $12,600, and another last year at $16,450. One graded at 68+ went for nearly $40k. NGC auction prices are quite a bit lower—why is that? Are they so much less trustworthy as graders? 1. Classic coins are not commodities, where all in the same grade are expected to sell around the same price. Eye appeal is one of the big factors that cause large differences in prices realized in auctions. 2. For coins selling for mid to high three figures and higher, to get a sense of prices realized for nice looking coins in the TPG holder I want in the grade I want, rather than looking at sold pricing on ebay, I look mainly at the free auction prices realized databases from PCGS (NGC graded coins are fully included) and Great Collections (which are excluded from the PCGS and NGC auction prices realized databases. I prefer the PCGS database over that offered by NGC due to the significantly better filters offered on the PCGS auction prices realized database. 3. While there are innumerable exceptions, like it or not, as a generalization NGC coins sell for less than very similar coins graded by PCGS. I won't partake in that debate for the reasons for that, but that's what "The Market" dictates. Perhaps one should "buy the coin, not the holder"! 4. Finally, also "like it or not", we have a growing two tier market - "collector coins" with a CAC sticker, and those without. As a generalization (there's always plenty of exceptions), collector coins with CAC's have held their own, and in many cases have increased in pricing over the past five years, where collector coins without CAC's have continued their pricing slide over the past five years or so. Edited by Winesteven
12/25/2020 01:01 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
697 Posts |
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Anyway, I can see some justification for the PCGS and NGC values. And if it's true that the first coin was dipped, I can see a much lower price for it, but is NGC such a poor grader they'd miss that? While there's no doubt that the majority of knowledgeable collectors/numismatists prefer coins that are fully original, there's a large silent group that prefers that their coins look like the mint intended when they were struck. Obviously the major TPG's will holder these as long as the dipping does not remove much of the coins original luster. Matter of fact, many of the coins in my digital Dansco 7070 Registry Set have been gently dipped at some point, apparently gently enough that every single one merits a CAC. As we know, CAC is very particular about surface issues. Quite often bidding on these kind of coins at auction brings out significant numbers of active bidders. I think we can all agree that there are some truly original coins with unattractive toning. Dealers selling these always tell me that it just proves originality!  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine! My collecting "Pride & Joy" is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set: https://www.PCGS.com/setregistry/ty...edset/213996Edited by Winesteven
12/25/2020 11:01 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5177 Posts |
If the third coin sold for $12,600 on Heritage a month ago, why would you pay 40% more now? Makes no sense to me. In fact, what it tells me is that I should go to Heritage to buy high quality, high priced Buffalo nickels and completely ignore ebay. Edited by NumisEd
12/25/2020 1:33 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
697 Posts |
Quote:If the third coin sold for $12,600 on Heritage a month ago, why would you pay 40% more now? Makes no sense to me. In fact, what it tells me is that I should go to Heritage to buy high quality, high priced Buffalo nickels and completely ignore ebay. The coin sold at the Heritage Auction in November for $12,600 and is now listed by Kathleen and Dan Duncan of Pinnacle Rarities for $16,695 OBO on ebay, and on their website (and collectorscorner.com) for $15,750 (as we should know, even that price is negotiable). While your conclusion is right (it often pays for collectors to buy coins at auction), what we see here is the typical coin market industry at work - collectors compete against each other and against dealers at auction, and if a dealer is the high bidder, they will offer that same coin at a higher price to make a profit (and an even higher price on ebay to cover the extra sellers fee and perhaps PayPal fee). Just the normal course of business. That's why the majority of my coins were abtained via auction, with some direct from dealers, and fewer still (but some nonetheless) via ebay. A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine! My collecting "Pride & Joy" is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set: https://www.PCGS.com/setregistry/ty...edset/213996Edited by Winesteven
12/26/2020 10:29 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5177 Posts |
What you are forgetting is that collectors are humans, and therefore emotional beings. If they feel that they are being ripped off because the same coin sold for 35% less a month earlier, they get angry and don't want to do business at all anymore. Quote:While your conclusion is right (it often pays for collectors to buy coins at auction), what we see here is the typical coin market industry at work - collectors compete against each other and against dealers at auction, and if a dealer is the high bidder, they will offer that same coin at a higher price to make a profit (and an even higher price on ebay to cover the extra sellers fee and perhaps PayPal fee). Just the normal course of business. Also, how long is a dealer prepare to "sit on" a coin? A well-know coin dealer YouTube "celebrity" famously quoted that "I am a coin dealer, not a museum". Edited by NumisEd
12/26/2020 11:03 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
697 Posts |
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What you are forgetting is that collectors are humans, and therefore emotional beings.
If they feel that they are being ripped off because the same coin sold for 35% less a month earlier, they get angry and don't want to do business at all anymore. I'm not forgetting that. I'm just pointing out the reality of the market. I agree with your point about emotions, but that's separate from how the industry actually works. Perfect example agreeing with your point on emotions: earlier this year I needed a Matron/Coronet Head Large Cent. I bought one from one of the top specialty dealers for early copper. Only after buying it, did I do the further pricing research that I should have done earlier, and I saw this coin was purchased a short time earlier in a Goldberg auction for about 35% less(it did not show up in my preliminary research by plugging the PCGS cert number into their cert number function). Yes, I was upset! Quote:
Also, how long is a dealer prepare to "sit on" a coin?
A well-know coin dealer YouTube "celebrity" famously quoted that "I am a coin dealer, not a museum". We agree that decision varies from dealer to dealer. I'm not a dealer, but my sense is that many dealers will wait six months to year or more, (unless the coin value is dropping market wide) and those dealers are still in business. I'm currently interested in a high end SLQ with a well known national coin dealer, and even though I believe my offer is very high and more than fair, we're over $1,300 apart. So I still watch it, and over time it still sits at that same asking price. From my end, if I don't get that coin, I'm ok. From his end, he feels eventually he'll find a buyer. Periodically I reach back out to no avail. It's now been about four months. Oh well. A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine! My collecting "Pride & Joy" is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set: https://www.PCGS.com/setregistry/ty...edset/213996Edited by Winesteven
12/26/2020 11:54 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5239 Posts |
Auctions cam produce some anomalies, depending on how many are bidding and how keen they are on the item. A "price war" can send prices to crazy levels. Someone who wants it now rather than in 6 months (for an infrequently seen item) will pay a premium.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts |
Thanks for all the replies! I seem to be hit and run when it comes to participation here these days. Life is crazy around here.
Winesteven, I appreciate the info you provided for Christmas! Good stuff.
Funny thing, all three coins are still listed, and now there's one more at the same grade for $9,975. I'd have expected the lower-priced coin to be snapped up by now just because it's nice and flashy and inexpensive compared to the others. Then again, folks with that kind of money to spend on coins are likely to be more serious collectors and they know all the stuff I don't. LOL. Work in progress. Fortunately I DO NOT have a lot of discretionary money for this, so my purchases, while sometimes ill-advised, make for a fairly inexpensive education, at worst.
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Replies: 14 / Views: 2,779 |
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Posted 12/22/2020 10:03 am
