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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
I know that several folks are well aware of the cause of the strange features on these coins, but many others among us are not privy to your experience. Yes, those marks are definitely 'raised' on the coins. In an effort to save someone the heartache of being duped, maybe a few of the more experienced collectors will make a post.   |
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Moderator
 United States
16677 Posts |
Well, since the struck thru pieces look silver, I'd have to say struck thru scrap, possibly silver shavings. The planchet of each coin IMO, had foreign debris before the strike thus causing what you see here. I do not believe these are die gouges but I could be wrong. Oh grades, G6 obverse scratched, F15 obverse. Need the reverses.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
 3660 Posts |
Sorry, I never thought about posting pictures of the reverses. I will dig up the coins and post scans tomorrow.
Your conclusions as to the cause of the obverse features are incorrect though. They are not caused by die gouges (or anything else to do with the die for that matter), nor will a strike thru leave a raised feature on the coin.
'Someone' knows though, I am fairly confident of that.
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
In regards to that Mercury dime, it looks to me like it was struck on a discarded die. I was at the Carson City Mint a few months ago, and they had several examples of discarded dies in which a giant "X" was scratched into the surface of the die. That would account for the raised lines on the surface, so that's my best guess although I could be entirely wrong. |
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Moderator
United States
16677 Posts |
 Error coins really aren't my area of expertise if that is in fact what they are  By the way, I just saw johnny's post and thought of that as well. I have only seen those though on Morgan and Double Eagle dies. I am sure they did it on other series as well. The small "M" under the chin on the Barber, is to me. swcoin.ecrater.com
Edited by vermontensium
01/11/2010 10:58 pm
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Oh my, you guys are starting to scare me a little bit now. If, by this time tomorrow, nobody has told the truth about this sort of chicanery, I will break down and do it myself. It really is very important that folks know the truth about this. If I were to send either coin to a TPG requesting an error designation, they would laugh me off of the planet. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Is it post mint damage? Did someone attach metal to the coin? It's hard to tell from pictures. Counterfeit coins have raised lines in areas that are a result of the counterfeit "tooling" the dies; but I've never seen any that looked like what is pictured. I can't think of other possibilities Edited by johnny54321
01/12/2010 01:18 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I am going to be honest here, I thought they were canceled dies as well
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
The Mercury, I think is a canceled die. The Barber, I have no idea.
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
The marks exhibited here are man made PMD, of the graffiti variety. They are knife cuts. As the knife blade slices into the coin's metal (silver in this case), a sliver or slice of the silver is lifted (or displaced by the knife's blade. When the coin is worn with use and age, the raised sliver wears and widens giving the appearance of a die created feature. This is a fact friends, well known by TPG authenticators, and is not just my 'opinion'. Both of these coins are suitable for skimming across the surface of your favorite lake (or spending at face value) nothing more. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6381 Posts |
Zeewool, thanks for reporting on this type of PMD. We are all used to seeing certain modern counterfeits and deceptive alterations which are intended to pass as genuine and sell at a profit. I for one did not consider what circulation wear would do to a coin that had been damaged long ago. I appreciate the heads-up on the topic! Another type of problem to watch out for would be the modern counterfeit or alteration that is artificially worn to hide the counterfeit and/or alteration diagnostics. Like on your examples, the features eventually become blurred to the point that it's hard to confirm the fraudulent nature of the piece. Buyer beware, as always! |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Yeah, that's interesting. I understand the raised lines on the dime from the cuts, but if they had once been "graffitied", i'd also expect to see corresponding depressed scratches adjacent to the raised metal. I guess they just become more hidden due to the wear. I still wouldn't spend them at face since they have precious metal value.
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Moderator
United States
16677 Posts |
So basically, it's a coin scar ;-)
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Yup, sorta like what happens to those teenagers (every time) in the 'Friday the 13th' movies.
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Moderator
United States
16677 Posts |
Without the bleeding  swcoin.ecrater.com
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I guess it was the raised off of the coin comment that had everyone thinking it was something that had been done to the dies instead of after strike damage. Most everyone is taught if its raised its in the dies and if its incuse its in the coin. I have seen post mint damage like this that has folded over from wear or what ever and it takes magnification to really be able to tell what exactly is going on with the coin because it does appear to be raised off the coin instead of sunken into the coin like one would expect from post mint damage. We all could tell the scratches over the face on the Barber coin was post mint damage, it was the M looking design that had us baffled
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Replies: 16 / Views: 2,478 |
Posted 01/11/2010 9:23 pm
