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Proof ASE Went Up Almost $9

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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
16442 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2020  02:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look at the 1 year silver price chart to determine for yourself
if the size of the price hike for the coin you are considering, is justified.

Dealers need to turn over their inventory within this sort of time scale.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1453 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2020  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let's pretend that wood made up 20% of the price of a new house that sells for $100,000. Then the price of the wood doubled. All else being equal, would the house then sell for $200,000? Nope. $120,000 would be the resulting price in a free market system (again, all else being equal for the sake of simplicity). The mint is definitely raising prices well beyond what is justified based on raw material costs alone.
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
10244 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2020  12:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes... it appears to be a "what will the market bear?" kind of play.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1165 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2020  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was at the LCS and the 2020 ASE went up a little also not the $8.55 that the proofs did but about .50 cents.
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2020  9:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Let's pretend that wood made up 20% of the price of a new house that sells for $100,000. Then the price of the wood doubled. All else being equal, would the house then sell for $200,000? Nope. $120,000 would be the resulting price in a free market system (again, all else being equal for the sake of simplicity).


It would increase by more than just cost. Even if you ignore everything and just look at it in a vacuum they wouldn't allow their profit margin on materials to get cut in half by only increasing by their added cost.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1453 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2020  10:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In reality the house manufacturer would try to increase the profit margin on their materials, but the market would ultimately determine what they could do. Given that the material cost was only about a third of the selling price, my point was that in a free market situation the overall price wouldn't go up the same percentage as the material cost. Of course this is not a free market situation, so the government will just do what they want.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1165 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2020  08:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From the US Mint:

"For the first time in four years, the Mint is making changes to the pricing for its numismatic products," according to U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White. "These changes are largely in reaction to changes in our cost levels over that time, and are necessary to ensure the continued financial self-sufficiency of the Mint's numismatic business.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1142 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2020  10:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"For the first time in four years, the Mint is making changes to the pricing for its numismatic products," according to U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White.

Of course this isn't an accurate statement.

Here is the pricing since 2016 for a few examples.


The 2016 Proof and Mint sets included the last three Presidential $1, 3 in the PS and 6 in the MS.

You can check other items if you'd like, but there was an across the board increase in 2018. So, the 2020 increases are hardly the first increase in 4 years.
Edited by BadDog
01/20/2020 11:03 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
930 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2020  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CollegeBarbers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the chart, BadDog. I was going to go back and check my records from the last few years because I knew that statement from the Mint wasn't accurate. Maybe this is the first time in four years they're making across-the-board increases on all products, but it's definitely not the first price increases in four years. So that statement is misleading at best. It's one thing to have a big price hike, but it's a whole other thing to lie about the justifications for it.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1142 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2020  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"For the first time in four years, the Mint is making changes to the pricing for its numismatic products," according to U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White.

I guess whether or not this an accurate statement depends upon what it actually means.

Does "changes to the pricing" mean a price change? or a change in the method that prices are determined?

If it means a price change, then it's definitely not accurate.

If it means a change in the way prices are determined, then I suppose it could be an accurate statement.
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2020  9:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Given that the material cost was only about a third of the selling price, my point was that in a free market situation the overall price wouldn't go up the same percentage as the material cost. Of course this is not a free market situation, so the government will just do what they want.


While true there's no real price controls, my point was really just that material costs increases are basically always more than just cost.


Quote:
If it means a change in the way prices are determined, then I suppose it could be an accurate statement.


It was almost certainly that one especially since the prices reflect something has changed
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